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Jed: Okay. Well, let's, guys, let's jump in. Uh,
uh.
all right. Stacy, take it away.
Stacy: Theme song. Okay guys, you have to, Lauren and Andy, you have two choices. Either
you two lead it and I'm think picturing like a jazzy scat theme song. Or I'm just going to, uh, steal
from Phil Collins. It's your choice.
Andy: Uh, I guess I'm gonna
lean towards Phil Collins. Maybe what do we, uh,
that's a phrase I've never said
by the way, in my entire life. I just wanna say,
Lauren: Yeah.
Stacy: Can you see me?
Can you see me running a show? Can you see me running a show? Because
I'm a showrunner.
The showrunner show,
Jed: Horrible.
Stacy: I swear these were, these are, these were so much better.
Jed: I'm realizing you had one good theme. You had one good theme, and it's just been like
scraping the barrel ever since then, maybe.
Drew: Steady, steady decline ever since. Yeah.
Stacy: our
producer was like, I didn't even have to auto tune you. You were in pitch. I was like, yeah, I went
to school for musical theater. This one, he is gonna be like, what do I even do?
Jed: Oh, he is just like, edit.
Andy: tune. Just like super heavy Auto tune.
Jed: Yeah, select all. Delete.
Andy: Yeah.
Jed: Well, what, welcome to the Showrunner show, where every week we do mystify
some aspect of the job of show running for anyone who works in tv who wants to work in TV or
just wants to see how it's all made. this week we'll be talking again with, uh, Lauren McKenzie

and Andrew Getten, who, um, who we love, who are fr
friends of friends
of the show, friends of the pod,
Andy: We can't, we can't do the don't
do
the, don't
do the awesome thing. Again, I can't handle
Jed: yeah.
Okay. Okay.
Who, uh,
Drew: last week? Yes.
Jed: yeah. Yeah. You can listen to our
intro from last week. Uh, this week's topic we'd like to talk about is, uh, the ups and downs of
being a writing duo. This is something, uh, drew and I, I'll, I'll tell a brief story. Like Drew and I,
you know, we came up together obviously, and, we have been tied at the hip in every meeting,
every, everything, you know, for all these years.
And, you know, drew and I actually copied the Cone Brothers, like we looked at, you know, we
copied their playbook, like Joe went, Joel went to nyu, Ethan, you know, studied other things,
like, and then they kind of met together and they divided their credits the same way we did. Like,
we followed their playbook.
And then we, uh, when we were in Santa Fe, we were having dinner with Michael Shannon and
Taylor Kitch, you know, because we were shooting Waco. And Joel Cohen and um, uh,
Drew: Francis McDorman.
Jed: Yeah, it was her birthday and they were having, you know, dinner there and Michael
Shannon's like, oh, I know her. You wanna meet them?
And we're like, oh my God. Yes. And we went over there and Francis McDorman said, oh, uh, is
that Taylor Kinch, Like, I gave him the worst career advice ever, like 20 years ago. I told him
never to do press or they, no one will respect you. She's like, I need
to like go over there and like, apologize. So will you keep Joel Company?
And so Drew and I sat with Joel Cohen and basically had like an hour long conversation, like,
how is it working as a duo? Like how do you guy, like how do you guys do it? How do you divide
the word? And It was, I don't know, such an interesting, um, conversation. We've never actually
discussed it. We've worked, drew and I are a duo.
You know, Stacy's, you know, part of our like trio and then you guys are like a husband, wife
duo. Like, yeah. How, like, how, did you guys start doing this?

Lauren: Andy and I started out as individual writers with the intent of never writing together. Cuz
any, anytime someone knew that we were dating, but we were both writers, they would always
say, well, definitely
don't write together cuz that'll
end the relationship. And we were like, absolutely, we will never do that.
Um, but then, uh, my brother was a best man in a wedding and my, uh, I have a younger brother
who's, who's very talented in like, sports, uh, is more his thing. Uh, writing is not. And so a
couple weeks before the wedding, he called in a panic and was like, Uh, as best man, I have to
give a speech for this wedding and I have no idea how to write a best man speech.
Can you write this speech for me? And I said, of course. I'm your sister of family. That's what
you do. You help each other out. But at the time I was a writer's assistant for David Kelly and I
was really busy. And so I turned to my then boyfriend at the time, Andy, and I said, Andy, I'm
gonna need you.
to write this best man speech for my
Andy: And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I don't know any
of these people.
Drew: Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.
Jed: It was, it was before the days of chat, g b t, where you could, uh, just like best man speech,
plug in some names. Okay, so go on.
Lauren: yeah. And I was like, yeah, don't let that
stop you. So he, he wrote a speech and he gave it to me to take a look at, and I made tweaks to
it. Yeah, I took a pass. Yeah. It, We went kind of back and forth. It was the first thing we ever
collaborated on. And then, um, I sent it off to my brother. Uh, the, uh, wedding went well.
The speech went great, and a couple days after the wedding we got a phone call from, um, his
friend that was like, oh my God, LOAC, like great speech. That was so good. Scott confessed
like he, that he didn't write it. And then he said, listen, my cousin's wedding is coming up in a
couple of months. Could you just
take a look at what I, and tell me if it's any good?
So we
were like, all right, sure. Fine. Send
it our way. And so, uh, Andy and I, it, it
Andy: kept happening,
Lauren: out. Yeah.
It, it kind of spiraled outta control. And for like two and a half, almost three months, we just wrote
wedding speeches for people all over the country for weddings
Andy: who we knew less and less.

Lauren: Yeah.
Jed: That's
Stacy: like, how many
Drew: a real business
in this. Yeah.
Lauren: yeah, well
Andy: except we did not get paid a
cent for any of it. So everyone's like, what a great business idea. And we're like, fuck yeah, that
was,
Lauren: Yeah.
Andy: get any money at all for that.
Lauren: Yeah,
Andy: I, people always
say, too, they're like, oh, that sounds like a romcom setup, except in the romcom. You guys hate
each other
at the beginning, you know?
Drew: Yeah.
Jed: Yeah.
That
Stacy: I love that. That's so good.
Lauren: Yeah, so, so that's how we started and, and what we realized after like three months is
we're like, oh, well, writing together was really fun. Like, it's so much more fun than just writing
on our own. And, and we felt like the work we were producing was great. Um, and we thought,
listen, um, I know everyone says this is gonna do my relationship, but like, let's just try it.
Like, let's just see what it's like to kind of write together. And, and then we wrote our first, uh,
spec, uh, script. And that did unbelievable for us. Like we, it opened a ton of doors. Everyone
was like, I love this script. I love this script. We got meeting after meeting, after meeting. People
wanted to make it, so we were like, ah, well this, this seemed to be the key to unlock, like, uh,
our best work.
And then from then on we just started writing together.
Andy: But it is a daunting process.
Cause you're like,
you know, you're already in a relationship with somebody, which

is like a
fair amount of eggs in
a basket and
you're like, fuck it, let's put some more eggs in here. More eggs. Uh, so
it doesn't come without risks, you know? Cuz it's not like, it's not like you're ever like, it's not like
you're ever like, oh, um, this writing team, they used to be married, now they're divorced, but the
writing relationship is still.
Excellent. Like,
you know,
Drew: That doesn't happen. Yeah.
Lauren: yeah.
Andy. Andy
Andy: still, they're still working on all cylinders.
Lauren: Andy always jokes
that the decision to write together was a bigger decision than the decision to get married
because he was like, I mean we, when
Andy: real.
Lauren: yeah, well,
when we sat down and said like, should we write together? I mean, we really talked about like
what that would mean.
Like, I mean, this means you're gonna write together for the rest of your lives, like,
not like marriage. Yeah.
Andy: Get
into marriage
in like an afternoon. You know what I mean? Like,
Lauren: Yeah.
Andy: but you're telling
me I gotta write my own sample now. I mean, Jesus.
Jed: Yeah. Yeah. For the, for those of you who don't know, like if you become known as a duo,
so you write a script with another person and people read it, it gets passed on, it, it gets you a
career. You are then considered, like, by like writer's guild. You, you know, you can get into the
Writer's Guild as a duo, and you're essentially then considered one person.

You're treated as one individual. So you, you go into a writer's room together, but you're, you're,
you're paid, you know, as like, you, it's basically you're paid one salary as if you're one person,
not two. Um, and you're, you know, residual. Like, everything, everything. It's, it's always as the
duo until, you know, I don't know if you go through some sort of process, but that that's, You
know, drew and I realize like in a lot of these writing rooms I. we're, we're making less, you
know, I mean, financially less money than anyone else in the room because we're half a person
each, you know what I mean?
And, and it's kind of funny, as you start coming up, you start going like, wait, but we're, we're
each bringing a lot of experience to this. We're each bringing problem solving. We're, we're each
spit balling, you know, ideas separately and together. Like we're, we're not doing the work, like
two people working together can do the work of five people, not one.
You know what I mean? Like, and that's been our experience and we've seen that with you
guys. Like you guys Yeah. Do the work of five people between the two of you. Um, Like how
has, how has your experience been with this? Has, has it been frustrating, you know, that side,
the business side of it? Has it at that been frustrating?
Has that not really, you know, I guess,
Andy: You know, a great question. I mean, there's a lot to
say. Uh, I'm always curious when you guys are brothers, we're married. There's like a fa familial
element to
that that stretches beyond the professional relationship. And I'm always curious, like there's a lot
of reasons
early on to get into a partnership, right?
Like,
because I think you can push each other, you can oftentimes, if you work well together,
create better material. You're doubling your
contacts, you're offering more value.
To your point, John, which is, you know, at the
beginning, valuable
in trying to break in.
But I'm speaking mostly
as like a writer's room.
You know, there's a, you're getting a deal right when you're getting both, both Lauren and I for,
for one.
But, uh,
it's interesting, you know,
I think it's something

you really want to think super seriously about before you do enter that compact. I mean, there's
obviously ways to do it, like on a more piecemeal basis, if you're just gonna write
a feature together,
you're gonna direct, you know, there's ways to do it where you're not sort of
tied together, but in a version where you're trying to break into television and work your way up
to showrunner or something like that.
As a team, you know, it's an incredibly serious decision because you're going to be like, in a way
the, that that other person's gonna be like one of the most important figures in your life in so
many ways for the foreseeable future, you know? And you have to
like, it's hard
to. Think
that
far ahead when you're just trying to break in.
But it is, um, an incredibly, incredibly important decision. And I'm sure
you guys
know too, like we know teams that are like teams that I'm sure wish they weren't, you know, like
over many, many years and they just don't really have the choice. Or oftentimes other teams
too,
if
they, we've seen a lot of teams that have had this split apart, uh,
because they just couldn't.
hack it together like
any longer, you'd be it financially or just the working relationship. Um, so, you know, it's a very
serious thing to, to consider,
but for, for Lauren and I
like, it's mostly awesome. I mean,
we love it. Uh,
there are definitely downsides that we can talk about too, but, um,
you know, there's pretty amazing, this is a hard life
and a hard career
full of lots of

slings and arrows, and
to be able to, to do that with
somebody all the time, I think is incredibly, I'm only speaking for myself, but
Helps me get
through it, you know, and helps, helps me keep going, and helps me keep writing and helps me,
you know,
there's a lot of
motivation and, and strength that come from not having to do it by yourself.
I, I, I've weirdly, I've always written with partners, uh, In screenwriting, even before I wrote with
Lauren, I wrote with a couple of other partners. I've always found it to be
Helpful to me in the process to, to create material that I felt like had different perspectives, that it
was a little more polished, that also
pushed me to write more, like all the things that it sort of provided, I always really valued.
So, um, I'm like a big proponent of collaboration in general.
Drew: Yeah.
Andy: Uh, and this
is like the ultimate form of that.
Stacy: am curious to know your workflow, because just the, you've had many different
partnerships. Has your workflow always sort of been the same, from partner to partner? You
know, who's the person at the keyboard? Who's the person doing voice memos? Who does the
first pass? The second pass? Has that always been the same or has it changed kind of with
each partnership?
Lauren: It's
changed.
Andy: yeah, go ahead.
Lauren: I was
gonna Say it's changed with technology, so. It used to be more that you would have to write
something and the the other person write something. Like, when Andy and I first started, we
would each write separately and then, uh, you know, you take a scene, I take a scene, and then
we combine it and note each other's work or kind of swap it back and forth.
But now, like we write all of our outlines on, uh, Google Docs because we can both write on the
document at the same time so we can actually be in the document together. Um, which is fun
cuz you're seeing the work expand, but also like you can see your partner go up to something
you've written and you just see like, delete, delete, delete.
And you're like,

hey,
Stacy: Strikeout strikeout.
Lauren: Um, and then there's um, there's an, uh, a script program called Writer's Duet that we
make use of, and that's, that's a, uh, like a screenwriting program where we, again, you're in
this, you're in this script at the same time and can write at the exact same time.
Andy: Yeah, it basically
makes the script in.
Lauren: Yes,
Andy: Oh, yeah. I, I, I, you guys don't have a trade out with final draft, do you?
Jed: No.
Andy: Because I. Trade out with Final
Draft. I hate Final Draft. I think it's a terrible
program
for what
it is. It's industry standard,
but it's like
so glitchy and hard. Like it's, it's just not great. And there's
a lot of other
programs, writers, writer Duet is the one that we use cuz you can truly just collaborate in real
time on a script, which is amazing.
And it formats
everything exactly like Final Draft. So we don't even use Final Draft anymore unless we're on a
show that requires it.
Jed: Well,
Drew: Wow.
Jed: well, I'll speak to, you know, partnerships.
Andy: I was gonna say, oh yeah,
sorry.
Jed: I'll, I'll say, you know, as Drew and I came up, you know, I'm, you know, I'm pretty shy, like
in, you know what I mean, outside of this, you know, venue. I, I'm a pretty shy person and Drew
is, drew has a lot more like, kind of social courage than I do. And I, I found that aspect of the job,
like, you know, so much of that, like, I, I feel like. You know, there's two things that I would say

have really helped being part of a duo is, uh, you know, before every meeting we would have
with exacts before everything, like on the way in, like it was like clockwork, I turned to Drew and
I'd be like, if I start
freaking out,
will you take
over?
Um, and uh, he'd be like, yeah, I gotcha.
And that was, it became, you know, where I almost didn't even mean it anymore. It just, like, I
just had to know Drew was there by my side and it would be okay, um, regardless of what
happened. Um, and another thing, like it means more, you know, when it's with someone else,
like just if it was by myself, I just feel like the ups and downs like.
If there is no one to share it with, like, like kind of who cares? You know what I mean? Where
with Drew, like, there's these a moments where it's like, oh my God. Like that was just, you
know, the best, you know, the best moment. Like, who gets to tell mom? You know what I
mean? Like, there's those moments and then there's the, like those moments that are like, that
was cra like was it just me or was that insane?
Like the craziest thing that ever ha like
Andy: Totally.
Jed: of us ever saw. Like, and it, it kind of stabilizes you in a way where, you know, you could
feel like you're like,
Andy: a
hundred
Jed: huffing laughing gas, you know, in some of these meetings, but like
withdrew there. It's like
he can verify your reality check, you know?
Drew: We've had
Andy: so true.
Stacy: life, the best thing about going to a party is leaving the party in gossip, gossiping about it
with your spouse, like, I couldn't believe it. Do you see what she was wearing?
Drew: I
Andy: Well, it's so funny you say that like, cause I think the
nature It's so
true. It's
a really good point. Like the

nature of, I think many
relationships, a lot of healthy relationships usually right? Like be be them professional or
personal is.
you know, you tend to try to balance each other out, right?
Like if one, like in a marriage, right? Even
like, or a relationship, if one of the partners is really mad about something,
the other
one's like,
oh, it's gonna be okay and, and vice versa. Right? And so there is an element of regulation I
think that comes with being in a partnership that's incredibly useful, right?
Like where one person's like, I'm gonna send this fucking angry email, and the other one's like,
count to 10, you
know? And, and I think, uh,
and, and also because,
because you are kind of representing someone outside yourself, I also think you oftentimes act
with a little more
Prudence, if that makes sense.
You know, because you, you, you know, you have to think about, you are essentially
everything you do, you are doing it on behalf of the other person as well, professionally.
And so you have to think of it through that lens. And I think, um, in a lot
of ways,
I think, you know, like
this will
not surprise you.
Like I would be the
one probably who would be more likely to like, say something I probably shouldn't in a, in a
situation.
Not like necessarily like a mean
thing or something like that, but
just like share too much,
for example. Or maybe tell a

story I
shouldn't tell.
And like, like having Lauren there,
I think has put some guardrails on us in a good way, like going through our, our career
a little bit.
Jed: I, I'm the, and I'm the Andy in this relationship.
I'm a hundred percent the Andy in this relationship.
Like, like Allison, our like creative exec, uh, describes this as like, John's like the one side of the
brain, like, maybe we should do this. Maybe we could try that. How about this? What about this?
And Drew's like the other side of the brain's like, no, we shouldn't do that.
No, that's a bad idea. That's,
that's a ter like, no, no, let's stick to the plan. Like, you know, Drew's like, we're sort of like, you
know,
in eager or whatever the, like two sides of
the
Drew: Yeah. Remember Stuart Stewart used
to describe us as John? John? He's the inside guy. Drew. He's the outside guy.
Jed: Yeah.
Drew: that
description.
Jed: Drew's the one you send to the parties. John's the one you keep like locked in the cl attic
for, you know, you
know, on
the keyboard, you
know.
Lauren: You, you also get to have like a, you also get to have like a total, um, scapegoat or like,
uh, you, you get to be like,
well, listen,
it might be fine with me, but this guy's the bad guy. Like, you don't, I know?
Drew: that all the time,
Lauren. That is such a great point. Like it's, it's so helpful when sometimes you can just, uh, you
can also buy yourself some time, you know, like, Hey, you know, it's an interesting idea. We

need to talk about it internally. It's just you're not, you're not put on the spot and have to make a
decision cuz you're just one person ever and you can really use that to your advantage.
It's true.
Jed: And I, I
know
Andy: also, we've also,
Jed: oh, drew, drew, you know, I know certain things like Drew loves, like when a car's driving,
kicking up dust in the background. Drew loves that.
Like I, I know if I'm on set and that there's that option, I'm like, do that thing. Drew loves it every
time, you know, like I,
you know, you get to know each other's the things each other loves and hates.
Like, oh, drew, drew hates a win. You know, somebody's holding a cup of coffee and it's empty.
Cuz
he can always tell, and it always makes him angry. So put water, like, you know what I mean?
Like, you can kind of like prote like, and I gotta say, there's, there's holes, you know, there's
holes in what we all see.
Like, we're all blind to certain things I feel like, and there's things I would never notice that drive
drew crazy. And I, I know, you know, he like. If, if it drives Drew crazy other, like I, you know,
early in our career there'd be things, you know, like that. Like he wouldn't, like, I'd be like, no, it's
fine.
It's fine. And, and then five other people would say the exact same thing and over time and
Drew's kind of unrelenting. So he, he'll keep bringing it up over and over until I'm like, oh fine.
You
know? So,
Stacy: It's Consistent.
Jed: no, but
Lauren: Drew,
Andy: Yeah,
consistent.
Lauren: I feel, I feel you Drew. I'm the same way. That's so
funny. I'm the same way. I have certain things too that like Andy has just like, given into at this
point. Like, I, I al, I don't like, um, I don't like writing characters who are tired on screen. I'm like,
why? Why is this character, ti why do I as
an audience

wanna watch this guy be
mopey and tired?
Like, give a cup of coffee. Let's get them.
Stacy: He doesn't get
to be tired. Yeah,
Lauren: Yeah. I I
Drew: that
Lauren: like it doesn't, it doesn't
translate on screen. To me, it just, I, I find tired to be just the worst to watch on screen
Andy: And I'm like, sometimes people are tired, but fine. Nobody's tired
anymore.
Lauren: not
Stacy: they're just angry.
Drew: give up.
Lauren: people. Yeah. People
don't get to be tired in our scripts. And the other thing is like, I don't, I find that the amount of
times that like it's, uh, in scripts that it's like this, the woman like character, like tears up, starts
crying. I'm, and not that I'm against people crying, but the amount of times that usually you see
in a script, like the woman is just like a basket case crying.
Like I'm always cutting out tears in our scripts and to the point where now like, Andy just
knows, like, or he'll be like,
can she, can she just sniffle? Like
he'll ask like, can she like, where, where can we push this?
Drew: I agree, directorially,
I'm
always, you know, pushing against tears too, Cuz I think, you know, my opinion is, is like, it's not
really sad to see someone cry, but what is sad is to see someone trying not to cry like that.
That's always really sad to me, is like
Lauren: Yeah,
Drew: someone's
Andy: we could have a whole separate podcast about our, like, pet peeves. Like my, my, one

of my biggest pet peeves is when in drama the news comes on with the information you need to
have for the character at that moment when no one watches the fucking
news ever anymore. And like, it's like the newscast is on tv.
It's like today at 1130, this blah, blah, blah. It's
like the exact information that our characters have to have
Jed: Yeah, if you want an example of that,
Stacy: Aftermath a lot.
Jed: two. Scene two. If we aftermath as that moment. So
sorry for that.
Lauren: Yeah.
Jed: Yeah.
Andy: feel
Stacy: wipes away at tears. Yeah.
Andy: Yeah,
Drew: But in our defense, that was 1994. They did watch the news then. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah, they
did. They
Andy: people watch news, people watch news in the nineties.
Jed: Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah.
Andy: Um, but it's true. You know, I think it's
really fun also, like, uh,
this, I'll speak, this
is more, I think getting to write with, with a, with a woman also is really nice.
I feel
like I have like a, like a little bit of a cheat code also in being able to like, Uh, a have like a
different
perspective, but also like, get to take chances that I might not get to take, you know, like, like we
like

some, sometimes we'll write
a scene and Lauren will
be like,
no, like we can't, like that's like, uh, from a female perspective we can't write that,
but we get to try it cuz we have
the cover of her being a woman in our group, you know?
And, um,
Drew: interesting.
Andy: And one of my most satisfying
moments ever was when we like wrote a scene on a pilot recently that Lauren was like, I don't
think this works from a female
perspective, but we tried it and all the
women were like, Lauren, I know you wrote
this scene because it's so true and so good. And I was like, yes.
Lauren: I I don't, I don't know about what you guys do, but
normally Andy and I like, we really don't tell people what we write. Like we, we, we don't say like,
I wrote this, or he wrote that, or we, because I find sometimes people are always trying to figure
out like,
who's the talented one and who's the hanger on?
Jed: Yeah.
Lauren: And it's just
Andy: the hanger on. I can clear that up.
Jed: Yeah, me
too. Me too.
Lauren: Who's
just writing coattails. Um, so,
so we really try not to say, and I will tell you people guess wrong constantly. Like, they always
think that I wrote something that I didn't, or, or vice versa. Always, always, always. It's, it's
usually wrong. Um, but yeah, like Andy said, it's fun. Like I told him, I said, okay, well try, try that,
try that risky thing.
And yes, he was right. Every, every exec, every woman on like, on our producers and, and um,
studio team were like, oh, Lauren, that was fantastic.

I
Drew: funny. That
Stacy: What was the
scene? Can you say,
Andy: uh, can we
Lauren: I
Stacy: tried on all these different outfits.
No.
Lauren: it's a, it's a, it's a no no it wasn't, but it, uh, I don't know if we
can say cuz we're currently developing
Jed: Yeah. I don't think, yeah, you probably
Andy: We'll tell you offline. I'll tell you
Lauren: I'll tell you offline. Yeah.
Stacy: Love it.
Jed: Yeah.
Andy: but I also
think it's like, it's really hard. Have you guys found like, you know, you change, it's so easy to
you change as a person and as a writer throughout your career. And
like, I'll just say like a
good example, like right
now is like, I think in the beginning of our career, maybe like I would've been somebody that was
like maybe.
Maybe wanted to do something weirder
or,
or, or more, UR and Lauren who had, who, who had worked in scripted television more than me
at that point was like, no, like we, these are the rules and these are the situations and this is
what works. Right.
But I actually think over
time it's easy to become like, You work in TV a really long time and I'm like, oh, I know what
works now.
And just plug A into A and B into B. And we've done it a

million times and now I feel like this things have shifted a little bit sometimes. And Lauren's like,
no, like don't forget to like
be different and weird and how can we make this like push it, you know? And I think that if I was
writing by
myself,
I could easily see myself steering into a direction that was less cool
or productive
in that situation.
Having somebody to balance you out I think can be really useful Also.
Drew: I agree. Yeah.
Jed: I love that. I, I find that same with Drew, like Drew, Drew, Is more willing to stand in the fire
and push back in a way that like, I can be, you know, like insecure and like, you know what I
mean? Like, and Drew's like, no, this is right. Like this is good, this is good. Don't, you know,
let's, let's push back on this thing.
Um, drew, you know, drew, drew has a ferocious spirit, you know, that, uh, I, I find really, no,
really, like, he's, he's, uh, he is stubborn in a way that I find really helpful cuz I, you know,
sometimes can be a little too eager to please, you know, partners and stuff and, or I can be like,
oh, I can't do You know what I mean?
Like, I, I can be sometimes more emotional also. So Drew, drew is a nice stabilizer. He, you
know, he helps me not change, helps us not change stuff that shouldn't be changed and helps
us, helps me like not do stupid things, uh, in an emotional state.
Drew: Well, thank you.
Andy: Yeah, I feel like,
uh, like I think Lauren's our, the closer in our relationship, kind of like,
like I'm more inclined to be like, Slightly annoyed or something like that. Maybe, or, or, you know,
like take, I take
much longer to like, like take a note. You know, like we've gotten, obviously all of us take a lot of
notes and usually there's something good behind them and we run into them,
but I might need a little more time to process and get to that
point, you know, than Lauren some of the time.
But I think that in instances where like there's
real issues or
problems, like Lauren is the, like the one that like you.
Would rather like that, that deals with that better? I think sometimes, you know, like I, I also like,
I feel like I'm learning a lot. I'm definitely the John in this relationship where like, I, I,

Jed: Yeah.
Andy: I would be more inclined
too to like, at the end of the day be like, okay, well I guess we'll do this and Lord be like, no, this
is, this is the one we should take a stand on, you know?
Jed: Yeah.
Stacy: bet if you guys took your Enneagram tests, have you ever done that? They're so fun. If
you took your Enneagram
Andy: Oh yeah.
Stacy: you guys would match up. I have a question for you. Cause there are so many different
aspects to, you know, there's pitching and then there's writing outlines, and then there's writing
drafts, and then there's reading other writer stuff and rewriting it and then there's, there's so
many different aspects to it.
Do you all participate equally in those things or is it like, Lauren's the queen of pitches and
Andy's the king of outlines and.
Andy: in the beginning
we mostly stroked to be pretty equal in everything that we. Did. There's certainly things that
were stronger or not as strong at,
like I just, for whatever,
like, you know, when we got into showing like, Lauren's better at casting, she was an actress.
She just has a better feel for it than I do.
Like I, I watch
things and I certainly have like opinions and values that I attribute to those, but I find that I'm not
always as good at
those. Don't always end up translating as well to the
person when the
cut comes
in, you know? And I feel like Lauren has like an incredible feel
for that. Lauren's also really good at like big picture stuff
like structure when it comes to, and, and she's able to hold a lot of those things in her mind.
Whereas I can be like much more focused on an individual scene than, than the, than the whole.
Um, so
there's definitely areas like
we're strong

a weak, I
feel like I'm really good off the cuff and Lauren's not always as good off the cuff, like in a pitch or
something like that. I'll take like, if there's questions at the end of a pitch, like I'm much better at
like doing those on the fly than she is.
Lauren: Yes, I like to like take my time and really like, think about something. And Andy does
not need that time to process. Like he, he's much faster at it to be able to, uh, and he's much
faster at, uh, riffing. Um, and, and, and like usually at the start of a room when you're doing like
the big picture blue sky, Andy enjoys that a lot more than I do.
I, I am more details. Um, I like structure, I like details. I like pitching onto a, into a scene, into,
into something structured. So
Andy: But as you get
busier, like now, I think we divide and conquer more than we did
before. You just have to, as a necessity, when you actually start show running like then, then it
becomes a superpower.
But it is like you have to have a lot of trust. And I think there's also, I'm sure there're probably for
you guys too, it's like there's a learning curve too, to like.
What you can do on your own or what you should do on your own versus what needs
consultation sometimes and you know, uh, how to use that superpower best.
Lauren: And I think, just to answer your question specifically, Stacy, like in terms of pitching
Andy, it's, it's it's a benefit, uh, to have a team member in a pitch because you can kind of go
back and forth. You get to tell the story and it, and you're not just like one person talking for 20
minutes. And then also, I don't know if you guys do this, uh, John and Drew, but we, um, we, we,
we even will write our, like, off the cuff remarks, like, you know, like little aside jokes that we'll put
into a pitch that, that sound like we just came up with it, but it's not, it's all scripted, but we kind
of. play back and forth.
Stacy: Uh.
Lauren: Um, and it kind of keeps things light and, and, and, uh, and I think it's very effective.
Um, so we, we do that together. Pitching outlines, like I said we do on, um, Google Docs and
that, and we are very outline heavy. Uh, Andy and I like, we, we like a long
Andy: As you, as you guys
know,
Drew: Yeah. Which I love. I absolutely love.
Lauren: well, we,
we also just like for our own writing really, uh, if, if we're talking about a scene and then we go
work on it, it's better that Andy and I know exactly what the, the other one's doing. Um,
otherwise it becomes chaos. If it's, if it's a little too loose.
Andy: Breaking, breaking
things in more detail before we go off and write individually. We found very early on we're like,
oh, this makes it way, way better. So you don't come

back with a scene. The other person's like, wait, we didn't talk about this at all. Um, and I also
think that like,
wise, you know, we've all have, you all have good and bad days, right?
You get in there sometimes and you're doing
great and sometimes you're not. And there's something nice where like, Uh, I,
I'm pitching, I'm like, oh, I missed that line. I forgot to say that thing. I get tripped up for a
second, but I'm only talking at any given moment for one 20th of the pitch. And then Lauren
jumps in and I have the ability to like
reset and I also have the ability sometimes to gain strength cuz she might be crushing
it.
And then
she's doing great and I come back and I'm like, okay, yeah. All right, I'm back in.
You know, like I don't feel like the whole thing gets lost sometimes. Whereas by yourself, you
can sort of, you're like, well, this isn't going well, you know, in your head as you're
pitching.
Lauren: how do you guys do it?
Drew: I mean,
it's so similar to what you guys are saying. Like, I, I technically, or I typically like, really need that
outline to go into a pitch and really want some structure and kind of know what we're gonna say.
And John really likes to, to riff and keep it conversational and any opportunity within the pitch to
kind of veer off of the plan.
John will jump on it right away. And, and it's always,
you know, it's, that's a good thing. It's like we, we say now, like, we need the outline in
case it's just like blinking eyes on the other side of the table and they're not asking any
questions and there's no opportunity to kind of convert into a conversation.
Uh, then we need it, you know, but the sooner kind of, you know, John's able to veer off is
usually, um, a good thing. And so we kind of have that, you know, push and pull between us
and, you know, John can riff and, you know, talk about anything he wants. And then I'm there to
kind of bring it back, you know,
Jed: I know, I started,
Drew: To make sure we kind of touch on everything.
Jed: yeah. I sorta
like have a tendency to grab the wheel and steer us off the road and then shoot him a look like,
oh my God, I don't know where we are. And then

he, he
Stacy: Ah,
Jed: and he knows how to get us right back on track, you know, but that panic face, he knows
my panic face now I just look at him like, oh my God, what am I doing?
And uh, and, and I would say
Drew: You know what I,
Jed: oh, I would say writing wise
Drew: I was gonna say, I, yeah.
Jed: go, you.
Drew: No, I was gonna say, yeah,
I mean that kinda reflects our relationship, uh, writing over the years too. And like, you know,
one thing about our backgrounds just being different, like John always wanted to be a writer. He
grew up, you know, writing, he grew up, you know, applying to, a, you know, school to focus on
writing and like, I did not, so like I could say unequivocally, if I.
Just didn't exist. John would still definitely be a writer. If John didn't exist, I would not be a writer.
And so the, you know, there's just a little bit different, um, evolution in our, in our careers in
writing. And it's always given me a bit of a, like, you know, I think we all have an imposter
syndrome, you know, in everything we do.
I think that's the, you know, kind of dirty secret everyone has is no matter how much experience
you have, everybody has, you know, some degree of that. And I think in the writer's room and
then just writing in general, I'll always have that because it wasn't, you know, my personal calling
necessarily. But I think, you know, uh, wanting to be a filmmaker and wanting to be a producer
and wanting to be a director and, and doing all these other things, I think, uh, you know, the
writing's at the core of that.
And I think, you know, our relationship, John's been, you know, very big ideas, lots of ideas. And
I've kind of played the role of like, you know, not that one, not that one. You know, that's the one,
let's focus on that. And then, you know, moving forward, kind of really focused on structure and
really focused on how do we, you know, Keep this storyline interesting for, you know, not just
two episodes, but 20, you know, and, and kind of thinking more big picture.
And that's been, uh, you know, often my role in our partnership, uh, when we're actually in the
writing zone.
Jed: Yeah. I would say even before
Stacy: My
experience
with
Jed: I, I remember like back Drew, you know, in his, uh, first life, like right outta college was an
investment banker. And I remember he was like the only one who would read, like, I'd write a
script and he was like literally the only person who would read one. And so I'd send Drew my
scripts and I remember Drew reading a script and just breaking it down in this, like, I think you

need to ask yourself why people go to the movie theaters.
Like do they go, you know, my sense is they go to have a big, you know, emotional experience.
They go to laugh,
they go
to like, have big emotions. like, you know, and it,
and it was, I was writing, you
know, the craziest like, you know, I, I wanted to be like Charlie
Kaufman. I,
I wanted to be, be the weirdest writer.
And it was like, it was just one nonsensical thing after another. And Drew really? And I was like,
oh,
yeah, I gotta start putting myself more in that
mindset. And I would say like, throughout the years, like Drew,
Drew tends
to see the forest in a way. We, we like to joke that Drew has the newspaper, tomorrow's
newspaper.
He gets to read tomorrow's newspaper today. You know, and he can kind of see things coming
in a way. Like, I get like, you know, like, you know, one example is Drew's like,
you
always wanna break the entire episode based on the teaser you want to shoot. You know, like,
do the teaser last. Don't do the teaser first.
You
know what I mean? And it's
true. I, I want, I'm like, I get a teaser in mind and I'll bend over backwards. I'll do, I'll burn
everything to the ground just to like, have this because I wanna go shoot it. And, and, um, and
Drew really has a, I don't know, he, he sees big picture in a way that I can sometimes get so
caught in little things that I forget to zoom out.
And I, I find that a really, I don't know, a something like over and over I'll find myself just like
stuck and he'll, he'll know, you know, what the thing to do. And I don't know that that's been a
lifesaver just over and over.
Stacy: I wrote a script once about, it was a comedy
Andy: sorry, real quick. Did one of
my,

Stacy: oh. okay.
Andy: oh, it's just one of my headphones went out, but I didn't know if you guys could still hear
me.
Okay.
Drew: Yeah, we can totally hear
you.
And, uh, uh, just as a quick timeout, as you
guys know, like all these little, like with the, the video delay, like we step on each other a lot and
all of that, we just nip out and it'll be gone. So obviously if we never worry about that,
Stacy: Yes, I was saying, I wrote a script once that was about, uh, it was a comedy about, uh,
like a grounded comedy about, uh, a couple has just had a baby and it's just sort of a, a, a funny
slice of life of the first week of bringing that baby home and the grandparents descending to
help, but not really being helpful.
And I love this thing. It was so fun. I had just, of course had a baby and put all this stuff in there
and Drew was like, Hmm, I think probably new parents don't go to the movies.
like, you, Dick. He's like, I think you're writing it for an audience that will never watch it, and so it
will never get
Drew: God, it sounds so harsh. You.
I know you guys make me sound so harsh.
Stacy: That was the headline of tomorrow's news was like, move on
to the next script. Never gonna happen.
Uh, spoiler alert.
that's exactly
that's exactly right.
Drew: Maybe this is a book.
Jed: Yeah.
well, Drew's
full of good. He has that good luck. That cut through it lot like Drew's super superpower phrase
is, is that really necessary? Like when, when Drew lays that phrase on, I've seen people
crumble under the weight of like, is that really necessary? Like, there's
Lauren: we, after working with you guys, after working with Drew, we've tried that, we've tried to
use that phrase in our own work. We've taken
that Oh, Yeah.

Yeah. we we try to channel drew all the time with that. Yeah.
Jed: Oh,
so good.
Drew: Sometimes,
you know, sometimes people really need to justify whether, uh, something is necessary. I know
that's.
Andy: Well, I just say it's funny, it's sort of like asking people
to examine what it is they're saying is such a valuable tool in general. Like
we had a
showrunner once who's, and
I don't advocate for this in general, but their tactic basically,
on notes calls was to say nothing and it was wildly effective. You would like listen to an
executive and be like, so I'm wondering if we could maybe just find a little something more
interesting for this character to do in this scene. And there'd
be like, nothing. And they're like, you know, I mean it could be something small, like it doesn't
have to be. You know what I mean?
If you want, like if you wanted to do it, like, you know what? You know what? Maybe not.
Maybe not. Maybe we don't even need to do it. And the
person would just say nothing.
And I was like, holy shit, this is working. I mean, I don't think it was like an enjoyable process for
anybody, but it was like pretty effective.
I was
Drew: that we found that too. We had a studio
executive that just had this incredible ability to just say nothing and just look at you and like we
found ourselves doing the exact same thing. We'd come in with like something we were pushing
for and then end up just like totally negotiating against ourselves and unwinding
Andy: Yeah,
yeah,
Drew: so intimidating and,
Andy: Yeah.
Jed: so funny.
Lauren: I, I

Andy: But I do think,
Lauren: Oh,
go
Andy: go ahead.
Lauren: I was gonna say, I think it's interesting the three of you work together. You know, Andy
and I, uh, just recently ha we've been developing a couple projects with a, with like another
person or, you know, there's another show that we're supervising, um, a, a writer, um, on her
project and there's three of us now in like discussing things and in a room.
And it's actually nice to have a tiebreaker,
you know, like, uh,
we didn't expect it, we didn't know how it would change our dynamic to go from just the two of
us to now like two plus another, you know, a third. And uh, and
it's been great
to have to have a tiebreaker.
Jed: that's
really cool.
Lauren: I don't know if you guys have found that
The three of you all working together now.
Jed: You know,
I'd say Drew and I, we always try to, like, I think early on we had more, uh, pushing back and
forth. Like earlier, like, and as we've come up, I've like, I think we've both realized like if Drew
has a problem with something, lots of people are gonna have a problem with it. And if I have a
problem with something, lots of people are gonna have like, and over time I think it's become
more like, okay, even if I don't see what Drew has a problem with, there's, there's something to
it.
There's a third way. There's a third way. Like it's never like, it's my way or it's your way. It's
always like, okay, there's a third way to do this. And I, I feel like being a duo, Starts you off in a
place that's collaborative to begin with. And I, I feel like it's probably makes it much easier to go
into studios, networks and deal with notes and deal with other collaborators because you're
doing that even privately.
You know what I mean? Like, whereas I think a lot of writers who don't have that show up and
like, how dare you tell me you know what to change? And I find like a lot of our job is just talking
other people down. Like, Hey, you know, there's always a way to make a good change, even
with a bad note. Like, we'll find, we'll find a, you know, I don't know a way to do this.
Um, where I don't know, I, I feel like, uh,
Andy: I think that's so true.

Like
the, the, like you
talk about like, I mean I think
writing particularly
in television,
But
any kind of screenwriting is about problem solving. Right.
And, and,
and I know there's,
like, there's the tarantinos out there, the world who solve their own problems internally and they
come out with something like this is
it, it's perfect,
it's done.
And, and
that can work, uh, for certain people. But generally,
like the most successful writers that I know, and the most interesting writers that I know are the
ones that are willing to be malleable and
throw it all
out and start over all the time. You know, not like unnecessarily, but like, We all know when
things are working 50% or 75% or 80% and, and it's hard work.
And so, and it's prideful work and so it's gonna be really difficult to make that choice to change
things. But the more malleable you can be and the more willing you can be to do, to do that, I
think the more success you are. And I think working with a partner inherently instills those
values
in you. You know, like we always give this example in the room.
Like where the problem you're always talking about in the room
is like, how do we get into this bank vault? How are we gonna get into this bank vault? And
someone's like,
what if we
tunnel under it and someone else's? Like,
what if we have steal
someone else's

id? What if we crack
the safe? What if we blow it up?
Right? And the answer is always, what if it's not a bank?
Drew: Yeah,
Jed: Yeah.
Drew: that's
Andy: the solution. The solution is to like go outside of the problem. And I think working with a
partner is so valuable because it constantly, it's, it's
it constantly making you problem solve
internally in a way that I think then becomes very useful externally,
whether it be in a writer's room or with executives
or whatever else,
you've
already had to throw out shit and change it and fix it, and so you're less precious, I think, in
some ways about those things when it gets to the outside world.
Jed: I love
Drew: example. I love that. I love that. And you know, I just wanna mention real quick too with,
you know, Stacy, it's like, you know, we've been working with Stacy forever. It's been, you know,
maybe more official on the last couple TV shows where we're actually in the same room. But
we've been, you know, developing stuff with Sta Stacy forever and um, in the trio really is, uh,
super powerful.
Like John and I, you know, and I'm sure Annie and Lauren, you guys have some of this too,
being a married couple, like John and I, um, Grew up together, shared a room together, you
know, have, you know, been joined at the hip our whole lives. So like our brains are almost like,
you know, one and a half brains. And I know, you know, John and Stacy are married, but like
Stacy is like this completely different brain this, you know, capable of writing things that we
aren't, you know, that is just such a different perspective and a different type of talent that, um,
that we're able to, as, you know, showrunners and directors that we're able to, um, that's really
valuable to us.
And, uh, I think, you know, beyond the, like official writing duos, I would say, you know, wanted
bit of advice I would have as like the, the, the stronger your writing tribe is, you know, whether
that be your partner or that be, you know, just other good writers in your orbit that you're close
to, um, can all have so much value in your career and all can be so, so helpful.
Jed: That's.
Stacy: You guys have such similar taste, you know, you really like you deep down like 99% of
the same things. And, and like you're saying, my stuff is more outlier. I'm more, you know, I've
got like history of the world Part one baked into my DNA in a way that you guys do not, you
know what I mean? It all somehow comes back to like, how about a Mel Brooks thing?

You know, Waka Waka. Um, but somebody brought this up earlier and I hadn't thought of it then,
but. I get, I'll write something and my first round of notes is always from John and Drew. Before
any, before a producer sees it or a studio sees it or network, see it? Sees it, they see it. And to
be honest, I get the greatest volume of notes from them.
So my biggest, my, the most notes come from John and Drew before anyone else has even
seen it. And I will, you know, I get, uh, I get very huffy about notes, very huffy and like, you want
me to change? Unless, unless somebody gives me the note and comes up with a solution right
then. And I love it. That's my favorite.
When people are like, I feel like it gets a little boring then, but maybe if you had the character
parachute in, you know, or whatever, you go, yes, I'll do that. Thank you. Um, but I get especially
huffy if it's from one person, one person giving the note and I'll be sort of like, I mean, it's usually

John
Jed: she means me.
Stacy: Yeah. Yeah,
Jed: I'm the one person,
Stacy: that's
totally.
Andy: Like
Stacy: John, you know, and the thing is,
Jed: hypothetically. One
Stacy: you're making breakfast,
say you're trying to get your kids out the door for school and someone's giving you a note. Say
it's something like that, um, then I will be like, uh hmm, let's see what Drew thinks.
You know,
Jed: Yeah.
Stacy: there's that, and it's true that if Drew, if Drew feels it too, it's like, okay, if both of them feel
that way, all right.
It's, it's easier to take the note and it's, it's, uh, helpful because,
uh,
John and Drew are also so creative and imaginative. So unlike maybe an exec who might give
you the note and not offer the solution, by the way, I find it a really sweet thing. Talk about
imposter syndrome. I don't know if you guys have noticed this, I have so much less experience
than all of you, but so far in my experience, I have found that a lot of executives really sweetly,
have a bit of imposter syndrome when they come up with ideas.
So they'll be like, here's the note. It's a calibration, not a big thing. And here's the bad pitch. Just
maybe one idea. It completely stinks and it's awful, but here it is. And then they'll say the idea

and it's really good. You know? I don't know
Drew: our
experience. No, I agree, Stacy, but our experience, you know, more often than not is that
executive notes are, again, our experience. I'm sure there's been, you know, a lot of terrible
notes people have gotten, uh, but in our experience have been rather good. And like we look at,
you know, the final product of, of some of these seasons of TV and be like, you know what?
That, you know, we were really pushed hard to, you know, for this plot point to not happen at the
end of the pilot, but to happen at the end of episode two. And that god that made all the
difference in the world. And like we, we just see so much
Stacy: buy gum. They were right.
Drew: of notes. Yeah. They, they often, some of these executives are very, very bright.
Andy: Yeah, I have a whole theory on notes in
the sense
of like, that there's tru I, I, I believe
that. Most humans, not even just executives, can process a story and, and tell you what's not
working about it.
Because we understand stories as human
beings like. I think that people like good note in that sense can come from almost anyone.
And executives obviously have lots of experience
and are very smart and can also, and give great notes. I think this, the problem that that arises
with executives is almost always because,
They give notes not for themselves. Like if
an, if an executive is
giving a note about what they believe about
something and
what they feel and what that's not working, it's
almost always a real value in it, right?
Even if
the solution isn't great. I think a lot of times executives aren't great at pitching solutions, but
sometimes they pitch great stuff. I think the problem extends when they're trying to, they're,
they're trying to give you notes off of what they think their boss or what they think.
the market or the studio or somebody wants.
That's when notes

become public to me
because they no longer
become about making
the project good.
They become about making the project into something, a target they think they're trying to hit.
and that's where I think
the notes
go off the rails for me
personally.
Jed: That's
Stacy: give an
example of that? Cause that sounds right, but I'm trying to.
Andy: Sure. The main character needs
to be more likable,
Drew: Yeah,
Andy: know, like, like
so many notes or,
um, That we have to have like a huge flashy act out here, because that's what you know, that's
what all the CBS shows this year. They really want big action at the end of the thing, you know,
and then all you're writing to
is an edict about like a conceptual edict that has nothing to do with your material.
It only has to do with something that they're trying to check off, and I feel like those things don't
go together very well.
Drew: yeah.
Stacy: have your main character save someone from a burning building, and then they're more
likable and you get your big flashy out. Boom, done. I solved it
Andy: Um,
Jed: I gotta say, when Drew and I were, you know, more
Andy: but I agree. We've worked,
yeah.

Jed: when we were in the movie space, there was like, there'd be like, you know, we'd be
developing like three or four movies and then a movie would come out and you know, and the
execs would be like, oh, that movie came out. It had a dog in it.
There's a dog in our script. That movie didn't work. So
we, you know, right out the dog. And we'd be like, well that doesn't, that, that's not the same, you
know, it's a totally,
oh, there was kids in that movie and, uh, nobody liked that movie. So kids are, kids are dead in
movies now like nobody wants
movies with kids in 'em, you know what I mean?
Like, it was, it was like just taking the dumbest lessons from the data, you know what I mean?
The data of one weekend.
And, you
know, but thankfully television has, you know, so much data you can't really extrapolate like
something that stupid, um, theoretically
Drew: Theoretically,
Andy: Well it's cuz they can't, they, they can't make
it good. They can't guarantee it's gonna be good, but they can guarantee there's no dog in it.
You know
Jed: yeah, totally. That's
Andy: so it's, that's, that's what they can, that's what they can control.
Jed: All right. Well,
hey, as we're we're getting into the fifties, uh, let's jump into the rapid fire four. Unless Drew
needs, uh, to do something
Drew: I just wanted to bring up one other thing about
writing Duo that I just made a note. Uh, so if you don't mind redoing
Jed: Oh, please, please, no
problem.
Drew: I, I would say one, you know, there's a lot of, we touched on the downsides of being a
writing duo and there's financial downsides and you really have to fight against, you know, the
system that's in place to, you know, pay a partnership as one person.
Cuz it is complete bullshit and uh, and you really have to, you know, dig your heels in and uh,
and, and be willing to turn Jo, you know, turn down jobs, um, you know, to protect yourself in
that way. But there's one element of, oh sorry
Andry 2: Sorry, Andy,

Stacy: I think that might be because
you took your,
Andry 2: might be because you took your, yeah, it's just because my headphone do, my
headphones
Jed: Oh, there you
Andry 2: I, I can, if this is, oh, there
Jed: No, you're
Andry 2: is okay, I can keep going like this. No, you're fine. Okay. I also have
Stacy: my echo cancellation.
Andry 2: echo cancellation.
Drew: There's an echo. I think you're gonna have to mute Andy and then
unmute when you
talk.
Andry 2: talk. Okay. I also have an alternate set of headphones. If we wanna wait one minute, I
could get those as
Jed: Yeah, maybe. Maybe do that cuz we're all echoing back to
Andry 2: we're all echoing back to ourselves.
Yeah. One sec.
Okay. Cool.
Cool.
Stacy: You guys are such good guests. You're so interesting. You have so
much to
Jed: my God. So
Drew: is fantastic.
Stacy: You're the first guest and other than the, the disaster of the first 30 minute switch on
thank you for saving the day, I would've just been like, well, I guess we don't do podcasts
anymore. It's over.
it.
Drew: I guess it's over.
Stacy: It was a great two episodes, but that's

it.
Lauren: this is why. This is why you need partners, right?
Stacy: Right.
Jed: you go.
Drew: Keep
you,
uh,
Lauren: know, Andy and I, um, we hosted an event at the Writer's Guild, um, a few years ago
now, um, where we did all, uh, teams, we had teams come and meet each other and, and we
did a panel with teams and we interviewed different teams and we asked them like, how do you
work? Like, you know, same questions you're asking like, how do you, how do you write
together?
Um, what do you do to ensure like that the team is like in good, like, uh, in a good place
emotionally? And, and, and people shared, right? Some people were like, oh, we go to couples
counseling. Like, that's just something we do. Even though they weren't, weren't a couple, like
they, there were two just individuals writing together or someone was like, a married team was
like, oh, well we drive separately to work there and back cuz that's our time to kind of
decompress or, you know, have a moment to ourselves.
Like, there were, there were different tips in there. Um, And it was so fun though because it was
like all these teams and you're like, I've never seen, I've never seen a team before. Cuz usually
shows will hire one team, right? So, so teams being teams was like, so exciting and like, you're
kind of like, tell me all your secrets, you know,
Drew: Yeah.
That's
Lauren: and, and actually
one of
Andry 2: hear me now?
Drew: Yeah.
You
sound great.
Stacy: Perfect.
Lauren: one of the things we should say on this podcast too, cuz like we, we had asked like
teams like how to help each other out and, and um, some, one of the teams got up and said,
listen, um, you know, you kind of fight to get paid separately, but on the off chance you, you lose
that fight, you can then kind of go to your second tier fight, which is you get separate pension
and health and sometimes they will give on that.

So even if they won't pay
Drew: Ah,
Lauren: separately, they
will contribute to separate pension and health. So they
Stacy: for 10 years Andy got dental and Lauren got
medical
Andry 2: right.
Lauren: yeah,
Stacy: and that's why he's got that stunning.
Lauren: exactly. Exactly.
Andry 2: Yep.
Yep. I can't walk,
but I got a great smile.
Stacy: I have one
more to jump in, uh, before rapid fire. Oh. And Drew, you did too. But
Drew: Oh yeah.
Stacy: I feel like if you're nice and you're likable, that's another bonus of say for, especially if
you are married or if you're brothers, there is a feeling of like, well, they must be pretty,
especially as you're building your reputation.
Reputation before people you know, know that you're known as good people. Well, you work
together and you get along, so you must be pretty nice.
Lauren: Yeah.
Jed: good
Drew: think that's so
right.
Like, yeah, if you know someone else could tolerate you every single day, uh, in a working
relationship, then you must be, you know, not that bad. And, uh, you know, I think there's, there's
truth to that. And, you know, the the point I was gonna make, like, you know, the downsides are
there and there's financial downsides, but there is a, there's an upside in just pure branding, I
gotta say, as a writing team that I think is super powerful.
Like, I can use, you know, Andy, Lauren, you guys as a, as an example, like, you know, when we
first got, you know, someone recommended you guys like, oh, Getts and Mackenzie, you guys
gotta meet with Getts and Mackenzie. It was just like, the moniker alone was like, who is this?

You know, Getts and Mackenzie, they sound so interesting.
And, uh,
Jed: like Simon and
Drew: us as bro,
Yeah,
Jed: what I mean? Like
it's, it's like, you know, like, yeah,
Stacy: Except now that I know you're Loac, I just wanna call you Loac all the time.
Jed: but sorry
Drew, I didn't mean to.
Drew: but yeah. But you know, we're brothers, so,
you know, our kind of brothers moniker has been really, I think, helpful to us, uh, just kind of
standing outta the crowd a little bit. And like, you know, there's another writing team that, you
know, John and I discovered on just like a real small indie movie that, uh, they had written and
were like, these guys are brilliant, let's meet with them.
And, and just the way they, you know, bounced off each other and just a, you know, lunch
meeting was just like, wow, these guys are, you know, nobody knows about these guys. Let's,
you know, really, um, um, You know, this would be, uh, like our secret weapon if we need, you
know, the perfect hire for the perfect thing.
And then, you know, of course, a year later we go back to try to hire them and they're writing the
next Marvel movie, you know, so, yeah. You know, but I think there's like a real branding value in
being a team. And I think, uh, you know, when you, you just come across as a bit of a force of
nature when you're two people, I think, uh, compared to someone who's alone in, a, uh, it's a
pretty solitary career and can be a pretty solitary career.
And when you make it slightly less solitary, I think it makes the, the product better.
Jed: Yeah. And.
Andry 2: you know, off that
Lauren: funny, oh
let me just go real quick. It's funny that you, this is just a quick aside, but it's funny that you say
that because, um, you know, uh, Andy and I take turns on whose name comes first on the script.
It's like what we've always done. We have, we go back and forth on our spec scripts and we go
back and forth on our writing credits.
And for the longest time we were like, whose name is going to be known as first? Right? And
just for whatever reason, the name that Andy's script was, uh, on first got like the, that script got
the most heat for us
and we became Mackenzie, but I was.

Drew: It's
got a rig to it. It does have a rig
to it. I'm just saying.
Jed: Yeah, you guys should like do a mashup like mag McGee's,
you know what I mean? Like something, something that,
Stacy: so we're Shaboo. So my
name's Shabos and John's is Dole. And then our cat was Schitz. And uh, John did the editing
with some other people on Poughkeepsie tapes. And then wasn't your editing assistant? You
tried to put in Schitz. Shebole.
Jed: Yep.
Mgm.
Stacy: cat
Jed: MGM did not approve it. Did not approve my
Drew: I had to deal with,
Jed: Assistant
Drew: had to deal with the, uh, the delivery of that movie to mgm and it was like our first,
you know, time even dealing with the studio and we're delivering all the materials. And he like,
you know, dug through every contract and like, this guy was like the bait of my existence for a
solid year.
But then when we got to the end credits, he's like, who is this Schlitz Shmodel? I'm like, uh,
Andry 2: he's
Drew: would be John's cat as the assistant editor. Yeah, he is like, um, take it out. Yeah.
Jed: for like the darkest horror movie, it's like the cat is cr like we were such a mom and pop
organization. Well, that said, let's jump into the Rapid Fire four.
Uh, we asked four questions, uh, every week. This week is Andy. Uh, what is the first television
show you truly loved and why?
Andry 2: uh, as a writer was West Wing. I, I remember watching that show and for the first time
being like, I wish I'd written that. And that was like a big moment. I always wanted to be a writer
and that was one of the first times that television felt like something that I would really want to
do.
Jed: I love that.
Stacy: such
a good show.

John and
I fell asleep in front of that DVD so many times on the couch, and we, you know, if anyone
remembers DVDs, uh, and the Wg Snuffy Walden scored,
Andry 2: Yeah. Yeah,
Stacy: it would've been playing for like an hour and we would've been asleep because, you
know, it's the DVD venue and we wake up. Like, what?
So that, that score haunts my dreams
Andry 2: inspiring dreams.
Jed: Yeah. So, okay, Stacy,
Stacy: What is your favorite part of the job?
Andry 2: this is maybe lame, but I really love the writing part. I like sitting down and actually
writing. That's my favorite part.
Jed: that's.
Lauren: wait, can I
Stacy: only writer in history
Drew: Which is it always? Yeah, that's.
Andry 2: I know.
Lauren: was gonna say. That's what I was gonna say. I find the writing part of it just excruciating
and awful, and I feel like
just, just beside myself, anytime
I actually have to
do it, and Andy would literally sit at the keyboard smiling and kind of like, like loving it.
Drew: I love
Stacy: Oh.
Jed: That's amazing.
Drew: That is amazing. I love it. Um, okay. What is the part of the job that costs you something?
Andry 2: I think anytime you do something that you love, you end up having to give up a bunch
of things you like because it consumes you. And I think that's true of this career as well. I have
lots of friends, I'm sure you guys do too, where they're like, I'm a lawyer and I check out at five
and I went to Turks and Caicos this weekend and I belong to a country club and I, or whatever.
Those all sound expensive, but that's not what I mean. I just mean that like they, they, they, they
work to live. They work to live and we live to work because we love what we do. And there's a

cost to that in terms of the amount of time you have to do other things.
Stacy: mm.
Jed: Great answer. If you had a time machine, what one piece of advice would you give yourself
when you were starting your career?
Andry 2: I
would give myself two tangential pieces of advice, which would be to decide what you want to
do as soon as you can, and run at that as hard as you can. I spent a lot of time as like in, like
everyone does in your twenties, trying to like, do just create art and hope waiting for someone to
come find me.
And that was not the most effective use of my resources or time. And the second piece of advice
someone else gave to me, which I think is like one of the best pieces of advice, is keep your
overhead low because this career takes time. And if you start to incur debt or just demands of
your finances, you will make choices based on that instead of choices based on where you want
to go and what you want to do.
And it's inevitable. You're gonna have to do that to some degree as you get older. But the more
you can mitigate it, the better choices you'll make and the more you'll free yourself up to actually
pursue the things you love.
Jed: That's a
great
Drew: is
Jed: of advice.
Drew: such excellent advice and that's, you know, not to pat our own backs, but that's one thing
I think we learned or realized early in our career is keep the
Andry 2: I know you
guys are blowing all that money on
Drew: Yeah, exactly. One iPhone and underwear, we knew how to keep the overhead low. And I
gotta say, when you learn how to keep your overhead low as a young person, it, it, it,
it carries, you know, through to your adulthood.
And like, I find myself like unable to expand my overhead because I love it so low. You know,
you really, uh, get used to that.
Jed: we still have like, you know, do everything virtually. Like, you know, we still Yeah. Don't
have an office we pay for or like anything, you know? Yeah. I, I love that. Well, uh, Lauren and
Andy, thank you both so much for jumping in. It's
Drew: Thank you
Jed: pleasure talking with you, and you're
both so, so, interesting.

So thank you for all of this.
Drew: Yes.
Lauren: having.
Drew: Really appreciate it
guys.
Andry 2: was so fun. I can't wait to hear
it.
Drew: Yeah,
Jed: All right. See you guys. Bye.
Stacy: Bye.