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John: All right, Stacy.
Stacy: Ready for a theme song? Can you show me something? Will you run to me? Number two is poop. But number one is P. There are four bases, and the last one is home run. This is the showrunner's show, and it'll be fun. this is the showrunner's show, and it'll be fun. Ha ha
Drew: That, uh, had a lot more lyrics than most weeks. I like it.
Stacy: ha! There's a whole other verse that I decided not to do about dropping knowledge. Ha ha

Drew: welcome everyone to The Showrunner Show, where every week we demystify some aspect of the job of showrunning for anyone who works in TV, who wants to work in TV, or who just wants to know how it's all made. I'm Drew Dowdle.
John: I'm John Eric Dole.
Stacy: And I'm Stacy Shabosky. We're glad you're here.
John: this week we're talking again with Rachel Tenner. casting director extraordinaire, and this week we're talking about how to manage all the voices, you know, like I think one thing with casting, everyone thinks they're good at casting because they've seen shows and they like actors. Um,
Drew: There's two departments that absolutely everyone has an opinion on, and it's casting and costumes. Yep, exactly. Wardrobe and casting.
John: costumes.
Rachel: friends is a costume designer, and that's all we say all the time,
John: I gotta say, costumes on our shows, like, costumes will, like, even if I'm directing will walk right past me to Drew and ask Drew because they're like, Drew's better dressed, Drew knows costume, Drew knows fashion, John doesn't know fashion as well.
Rachel: I shop, and I watch TV and movies, so I can do both,
Drew: So I can do both, I know. So it makes casting and casting even more than, than costumes. A lot of people, by the time you're, you're choosing wardrobe, have kind of, you know, lost interest in their, onto their next thing where casting is like all hands on deck, all opinions, all in everybody's
Rachel: non stop.
Drew: is slightly different.
And so obviously Rachel, um,
John: When if you get it wrong, if you...
Drew: center. Yeah.
John: you get that one thing wrong, you can have the perfect script, idea, show, and you get casting wrong, and the show's gonna stink. You know what I mean? And so I think that's part of the reason everyone's so focused on it, too.
Drew: and poor Rachel and other cast directors have to be at the, like, the little, the intersection point of all of those opinions and kind of absorbing all those opinions and trying to, you know, manage it all. And so, yeah, we wanted to talk, you know, in this episode about that part of the process of, you know, what it's like to manage that and, um, you know, what are some things, you know, to avoid, what are, you know, some good strategies and that kind of thing.
Stacy: I'd even just love a list of who you interact with. Like, I literally don't know, like, yes, it's about managing all those cooks in the kitchen, but who are the cooks in your kitchen?
Rachel: Uh, so the numbers obviously can vary per project, but, uh, you basically, you have your director, uh, yeah, your, your showrunners. Um, your producers, so those numbers can always vary, um, and if there's also another producing entity, then there's like another, it can be another group of producers. Uh, you can have your studio and your network.
So then there's those groups of people. Um, so it can really, there could be a lot of people that have to sign. I mean, there's so many people that have to sign up. So Ellen Chen and I used to, like, I literally lost. I think probably once every six months, I'll be like, remember when, like, when we, when I first started with her and we would, when we were doing Jill and Ethan's movie, the Coen brothers movies, um, and we would have a session with them.
We would not videotape. It would literally just be actors would come in the room and we would do, they would, we'd have an audition. They would write down notes. They would, you know, we would talk about it after they would pick their person. And then we would talk to the line producer. We would call the agents, tell them that the actor got the role, talk to your line producer, get the deal together, call the actor, and then make the deal with the agent and you were done.
Drew: Wow, what a dream!
Rachel: literally the end of it.
John: Wow.
Rachel: like, I, I literally, I do, I have no memory of getting approvals. I have no memory. And I mean, obviously they probably had, you know, maybe Ellen was dealing with like things at a different level that I wasn't, but I don't remember like, you know, maybe. There were like a, like a, maybe one producer that would have to like, like maybe when Rudin was involved, like, obviously, like, there was like that piece of it, but like, I just don't remember.
I mean, we didn't even have tapes. We didn't have tapes to show people. You know what I mean? Like, it was,
Stacy: You're like, trust me. He was great.
Rachel: you didn't know, I don't even know who you told that to. You were just like, that was, you didn't tell anybody anything. I don't even remember any of that. So, I mean, unless
Stacy: What about
Rachel: literally romanticizing it.
Stacy: Are agents, are agents a cook in your kitchen? Do you like, are you on
Rachel: No, not, not, not for like approvals or anything like that, but they're, I mean, they're part of my everyday process.
Stacy: they are. Okay.
Drew: you are dealing with a lot of, a ton of agent contact every day, which
Stacy: Okay. So it's not so much for the decision making, but for the like availability, getting
Rachel: Oh, availability is availability is availability is. Pitches, pitches, pitches, pitches. Yeah. It's just, it's nonstop. I mean, it's all, yeah, it's all day, every day. I can't, yeah, the volume of it is kind of hard to, to explain.
John: One, one thing I, one thing I wanna mention with the Cohen brothers too, I know they've cited the fact that they would always keep their budgets really reasonable as part of the reason they had that kind of autonomy.
Rachel: Right. That makes
John: I, I think if you, you know, if you're gonna do a big. If you're doing a Marvel movie, you're not going to be able to just be like, this person, this person, and I'm done.
You know what
Rachel: Right,
John: it's going to be, or, or, you know, really everything now. But, um, I, I would say the higher the budget, most likely the more, um, noise.
Rachel: That could be true because, um, yeah, you're right. You're right. So maybe other shows, even if it was at that time that were bigger budget, might have had a different process than that was because of the budgets of those. You're right.
John: I think if you're doing a Coen brothers movie, you don't want to be like, okay, we're doing a Coen brothers movie, but we want it to be cast like a JJ Abrams movie. You know what I mean? Like, you know, two very good casting styles, but you
Rachel: yeah, I just, I just don't remember the approval process that like was so laborious now. Like it's, it's just, it's so, there's so many steps to getting everything approved and everybody who has a line, sometimes it's even, um, If anyone's being hired as a principal, even if they don't have a line, they all have to be approved by the studio.
John: That's the worst as a showrunner when you're like, Hey, this person literally has one line and you're like, you're questioning
Rachel: be like, hold on, let me go get the approved, I have to
Drew: It's amazing how often it's those ones that they reject, you know, like we could kind of, you know, bat a thousand for a while, then suddenly, like, everyone's got an opinion about this, you know, day player. Okay. It often doesn't make sense. Yeah.
Rachel: Yeah.
Stacy: for you to like for us with notes on scripts? It'll be like, uh, you know, producer notes, then studio notes, then network notes, or sometimes there'll be folded in, but it's like three layers of notes on the same thing. Is it the same for your approvals or do you get them all, um, from one entity?
Rachel: No. Well, you go, it's a, it'll be a process. So we'll go, um, first we'll go studio and studio, then network. And then sometimes they'll just get it for you from the network. Like you'll go to get, yeah. I don't think I have that backwards.
John: Well, I feel too, I feel like there's, I feel like you'll come up with your like list and then we'll, you know, usually talk and then we'll go like, it almost like opens up like a layers, it seems in a, where it starts, yeah, with the smallest group and then goes to bigger and bigger groups as it goes.
Rachel: yeah, exactly. So first we'll decide, right, then we'll get producers to sign off, then, then once everyone's signed off, like in our, you know, our media groups, then it'll go to the studio, then it'll go to a network, right.
John: yeah,
Drew: We always
Rachel: Yeah, yeah,
Drew: a, as a strategic move, both in the writer's room and in casting, we always try to convince the studio network to become one entity, basically, in this approval process. And that can really save you a lot if you can, if you're the showrunners and producers are all aligned on a choice and then you present the studio network.
Rachel: right, exactly.
Drew: that choice that they can discuss it and either give you a yay or nay, but it can kind of, you know, eliminate one, one tear, which, um, is helpful.
Rachel: Yeah. I think like strategy wise, you know, I think in the beginning, um, I think, I don't remember who I was working with, but I think that person felt like. wanted to treat the studio network in a much more like, um, as a kind of like more of the enemy, you know, and wanted to keep all our process much more guarded.
And, um, I felt like it made everything, the process like complicated, obviously complicated, you know what I mean? It made everyone a little bit more on edge and you know, they, cause you know, they want to know updates, you know, they always want to constantly know like what's going on, who are you looking at, what's going on, what's going on, what's going on, who are you looking at, who are your favorites, who are your favorites.
and you know, they want to keep it, you know, some showrunners and filmmakers want to keep it close to the chest and, you know, want to keep all the information guarded and that, you know, that's their prerogative and that's the way it is. So, um, and then I worked with someone who was kind of like, you know what, like in a big, like a big, And he was like, I'm good.
You know, I thought for sure he was going to be like, no, like do not share a single piece of information. And he was like, you know what? Like, it's not a problem until it's a problem, you know, kind of thing. And let's just, I'd rather keep the, you know, the lines of communication open. And, um, and so, and, uh, and when he said it, like.
Particularly that it was him, I was like, this is such a better way to do this for myself. And I kind of now approach it like, you know, um, I mean, I, you know, make sure it's okay with like my person, but, um, I try to get, I kind of. Embrace that philosophy, like, you know, it's not a problem until it's a problem, like, you know, and kind of try to keep the lines of communication open so that it's a lot more cohesive, you know, and that we're all kind of on board and like, when red flags come up, like, we can kind of anticipate or, um, get to them earlier than, you know, keeping all of it and then it's some big surprise down the line.
And now we're just kind of like, you know, it's like, you just hit a brick wall and now we have to like, you know, start over or, you know, hit some. Yeah. Insurmountable wall. Insurmountable wall. Um, you know, and, um, and so that's kind of like my approach. So when it's like all the voices, you know, are coming at you, it's just kind of like, just take them all in, you know, and just like, everybody and hear everybody's point of view and hear what everyone's saying and, and, and let everyone kind of have their day in court and kind of like, you know, Let, should make sure everyone knows what's being said and what's being heard and everything like that.
I mean, cut out some noise when the noise, you know, I, you know, you're going to cut, you're not, not everything needs to be repeated to everyone when it's like nonsense, you know, but, you know, if there's important pieces of information being floated about, you know, like, if there's the studio is really like, you know, glomming on to somebody, like, you guys should know that, you know.
Because if it's someone you really hate, then I should be able to go back and say, you guys, I just want you to know now, I know you're glomming on to this person, but, you know, John and Drew, they are not into that idea. You know what
Drew: that's so helpful for that, you know, like you're saying, the open lines of communication to kind of, for that to be known and they can still maybe try to push it, but at least knowing that information earlier is better than when they've all just like totally in their heads, cast it already as this person, you know, that's just so helpful.
Yeah.
Rachel: Right. And it's good for them to know if there's someone you love that, you know, it's nice for me to be able to be like, Hey, you know, they love Stacy. Like, they really love her. Like, they're going to want, they're going to come to you with her. And so that they can. You know, then my person at like, let's say it was, like, if it's Emily at Apple, she, she can go to her people and kind of give them also a heads up.
This is who the guys are liking, you know, I can send them pre material. I can kind of like, you know, I can like, you know, like smooth the road a little bit, you know, get them educated so they know what's coming. You know, it's just kinda, I, I find that that's. feeling more helpful than, um, always trying to like, just kind of keep everything like hidden, you know, but if you're, but sometimes you work with people who don't want to share that stuff, you know, and feel like it's not their business.
It's not for them to know until I'm ready to show them. And I'm like, I get, that's totally fine too. So, you know,
John: think casting, too, is like, it's one of the first, like, real team building exercises that filmmakers do with the network and studio,
Rachel: yeah.
John: you're like, you can't see anything, like, I'll tell you when I'm ready to tell you who to cast, like, if you treat them like an enemy, like, they're going to be worried about you forever, you know what I mean?
Rachel: Is that right? I mean, is that the,
Drew: Yeah.
John: that's my sense. That's my, like, I like, I like treating them as partners. And you know, there's. There's times I pushed hard for, uh, to cast someone and wasn't able to get it through. And then we ended up with someone like much better, you know what I mean? For the role, um, or someone I feel really passionate, like it felt like predestined and, you know, and so I think having, from my standpoint, having a perspective and having a point of view.
And pushing for that point of view, but also being willing to let go, like not drive it into the ground, you know, unless it truly is the only person for that role.
Rachel: is there a big difference though about how you, um, like your process now from like the first project you've done to now that you've done so many, like where the stakes, like how you were managing your relationships on the first one to now, like totally different. You know what I mean? Like, where the first one you were like, I've got, you know, you're not the boss of me.
And now you're like, Hey man, I hear what
Drew: first one is our first one.
John: our first, our first studio movie was Clint Culpepper. I don't know if you remember him. Um, but, uh, and I, I'm not speaking out of school. He was a, Uh, uh, a big, a very large personality and, um, and had very strong opinions. And I, it was kind of everyone at Screen Gems kind of worked for him and we were just kind of invited to the, you know what I mean?
But so he was already ahead of all the casting, you know, things. He'd be like, I want this person for this role. And we'd be like, well, you know, we'd have to kind of in the room, a really.
Clint wants this person for this and this person for this and, you know, he just offered a role to, you
Drew: Yeah, there'd be
John: in a restaurant, you know, and he'd be like, wait, what?
Drew: an offer would have gone out without even us knowing about it, you know? And, um, you know, not, not for like the lead leads, but, you know, some significant roles where it was, it was definitely a system that was designed to keep you very much on your heels and very much working for him.
And, uh, so yeah, our first
John: Yeah. I got the, I got the call from the executive, like, okay, Clint just offered this role to, you know, a person in a restaurant and I was like, wait, what? Like that's a person that has a lot of exposition, like, and, uh, and he was like, look, here's a deal. Um, I was like, you can't even do that from DGA, right?
Like he's like, here's the deal. Someday, uh, you'll have some clout and not have to deal with this. But right now you just gotta deal with it and suck it up, you know?
Rachel: Oh, wow.
John: I was like, awww!
Rachel: Really?
John: I was like, that's so mean, you know? It was, uh,
Drew: We were told in no uncertain terms what our place was in that movie, so I think, I know, so I think it's a tough comparison when you look at our first kind of like, bigger level. We had great casting directors too, they were, they were very much. You know, commiserating with us on a daily basis. And, and, you know, and frankly, we got, you know, we got a few choices that they didn't love that we did.
And so there was at the end of the day, some, some balance to it all. But, uh, but it
John: they like casting pretty people and we're like, we're going to cast the most character cast that Screen Gems has ever had. And, uh, that was our mission and, and, you know, and we learned, we learned to, you know.
Stacy: think they were good looking. That was a pretty good looking
Drew: Oh, no, no. They saved us from ourselves a little bit. I think at the end of the day, we had a very, you know, pretty good looking, a good balance and,
John: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was
Drew: And, you know, one thing I would say too, just over the years from that project on, um, there's times when, you know, the powers that be have said, you know, We've had a choice that we loved and they said, we just don't feel it. It's just not right. Move on. And we've been kind of really upset about it at the moment. Right. Yeah. But almost a hundred percent of the time you look back, you know, a couple of years later, like, Oh, they were right. They were right. And we just didn't see it in the moment.
And I think that's just indicative of the casting process. It's so emotional and it's so subjective and it's so, you know, you suddenly want to bet on someone and you really want to, you know, be passionate about your choice. And you can be blind to some of the signs that maybe it isn't the right choice.
And I think, uh, you know, more often than not, when you're running into that, you know, fierce resistance on an, on an idea, they're right. You know, almost, almost all the time. And, um,
John: and Rachel, you're so helpful in those zones too, like, you know, there's been times where it's like, Rachel, like, are they right? Am I wrong about this? And you'll be like, Oh, I kind of see what they're saying. You know, it might
Rachel: Yeah.
John: like, I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, you'll, you'll sometimes, uh, help us.
Um, you know, cause like even Drew and I will have different opinions about. You know, different roles and actors, and it doesn't mean that Drew is trying to be mean to me or, like, take away my power, or vice versa, you know what I mean? It's just like, it's subjective, it's subjective, and it's, you know, it should be a negotiation because we all have blind spots and, you know, we
Rachel: Right. Right. Right.
John: you know, like Drew, Drew is very aware of, like, people who have empty cups in their hands, like, Drew notices that, I don't notice that,
Drew: Right? So I'm driving you crazy too? Yeah. I'm very prop.
Rachel: suitcases,
Drew: the worst. Yeah. Empty suitcases, like.
Rachel: they fill up cups?
Drew: You know, and why, why not put a little weight, it's almost
Rachel: Why not fill up a cup?
Drew: yeah, why not put a little weight in bags? Luggage is,
Rachel: And luggage. Why don't you put Wade in? I
Drew: I know. I will literally go open every piece of luggage on set, I'm like, that annoying.
John: Drew is. He's totally,
Drew: I'm so annoying.
John: but, but I don't see that,
Drew: Well they'll be like, you know what, you'll open a suitcase, they'll be like, we stuffed it full of newspaper, so it looks full. I'm like, yeah, but it still doesn't weigh anything.
Rachel: I mean, it looks ridiculous, ridiculous. You know, it's so funny. I, I've been driving around lately a lot and I was like dead sided during the strike, like a good way for me to make some money is to, um, dig a citation book and give people tickets for bad driving. Cause it annoys me how bad people are driving, but they have to pay me instead of the city. And now I
Stacy: Privatize it. You gotta privatize
Rachel: citations to projects that don't properly weight their luggage or fill their coffee
Drew: I will join you in that effort.
Rachel: yeah, and now studios have to pay me for improperly weighted luggage or coffee cups. I'm
Drew: Oh, I knew you were like my kindred spirit, Rachel. I
Rachel: Oh my god, true. I can't, I mean, I literally, I'm always like cringe.
It makes me so mad.
Drew: So mad.
John: I, I have to say, I have to say when we're shooting, I can always tell when Drew and Rachel are talking because you guys are like siblings. Like, you guys sit there, whenever I hear Drew like cracking up, like, you know, like, you know, like, it's like, I mean, you guys, yeah, there's really like,
Drew: true. I really look forward to my Rachel calls during the day. It's the bright spot of the day, for sure. That
John: Yeah, totally. Totally. I can always, like, at a, like, listen, I can always tell, like, You know, oh, is there a problem? You know, I can usually tell from Drew's tone of voice, like what's happening and, uh, and I can always tell when it's you because he's so happy every time you guys
Rachel: god. Oh my god. So funny. Um, how often do you have to referee between filming? Like, have you ever been in a spot where it's like, you know, production is coming and you have two people like hammering each other and... You don't know. I don't know. Like, how do you manage something like that?
Like, which parties are hammering each other?
John: like if either filmmakers and networks aren't seeing eye to eye and they're just Have you ever been in a situation where they're just locked
Rachel: I gotta tell you, it's like, there are moments where I'm like, this is above my pay grade. You know what I mean? Like, at one point if the networks and the showrunners are not I mean, I, you know, there's a kind of a limit as to what I can actually do, you know what I mean? Um, because I'm not a pretty, you know, I'm not a producer and I can't like go to the studios and set up a meeting for all of us to sit down and, you know, talk it through, like, it's like, I can't, like, there's a, there's like a limit.
So, you know, at one point. You know, I, I always feel like, I guess there's like the two parts, the two, my two, I guess, go to phrases. I was, I'll be like, okay, this is above my pay grade when I know when this is something they're going to have to work out themselves. And that other one, when I was saying that before is like, are we all making the same show?
Drew: yeah,
Rachel: You know, that's that thing where I'm always like, I feel like tonally, we are not tonally in sync. Like, you know, I don't feel like the, like, I'll feel like, I don't feel like the network in the studio. But. The show that these showrunners are trying to make like that's like, I'll feel like that's where I'll feel like a tonal, like weird thing.
And that, like, those are my two things where I feel like the conversations where, where there'll be that, that, uh, friction and, and the conversations are much bigger than just me being able to figure it out with like an actor solving the problem or, you know, that kind of thing. Um, but, uh, you know, but I think that's, those are the things that I'll say.
It'd be like, I think you guys really need to sit down with the, uh, You know, the studio and, and talk a little bit more about what the show is you're making and why you're leaning towards these people because they're not seeing it. Like they don't understand what it is you're, you're, the tone and the point of view you have on this because, you know, they're responding to something totally different, you know, and that's not the show you're making. Either you're going to give in and make that show or they need to understand the show you are, like, so you guys have to just, you know, but again, I'm not calling that meeting,
Drew: yeah, yeah, exactly,
Rachel: like, yeah, I can just bring the awareness to it, you know?
John: Yeah, that's what about between like
Drew: yeah,
John: Directors and show, like Drew and I don't have like experience with that just, you know, in the, like, at least in the pilot and the setting up of the, the series, uh, you know, we've, we've always directed, you know, our own stuff, at least our pilots and stuff, uh, like, does that ever go sideways or have you had experience, like, has that ever been your experience where showrunners and
Stacy: The showrunner Director
John: Yeah. Is, uh,
Rachel: Oh,
Drew: when it's not, yeah, not the same person.
Rachel: yes, I've had a couple times, I've had a time where showrunner, in both instances, it was like a producer and director because they weren't really, yeah. I would say, no, that was a weird one. It's almost like, the producer, Oh my god, that was, that was, that was almost like, four different sex, all kind of veered different ways.
But it ultimately ended up where they feel like all of them definitely lost faith in the director. And then another one was where the showrunner kind of lost faith in the director. And then in those, all those situations, it's really rough. You know, because, um, when I think they lose trust and lose faith in that person, they get, uh, you know, I feel like they ultimately kind of get bullied, you know, they kind of get pushed over, steamrolled.
Um, and Yeah, I think at the end of the day, they kind of get steamrolled and they get, you know, and they get upset and they're like, you know, they're coming from like a place of total like defense and, uh, there's just like a lot of friction. So, you know, you're, you're only doing your one section of that whole piece of the, you know, production puzzle.
So I, you know, I think all the departments are probably dealing with the same thing. Um, so, you know, you're just trying to make sure, you know, you're trying to make sure your director is having a voice but obviously understanding the big picture of what's happening, you know what I mean? Like psychologically so that you are, not just like a bull in a China shop, you know what I mean? Like, you're just being like, he wants it, you know what I mean? Like, you have, like, you know, you do have to like, psychologically take a step back and understand like what's happening and know how to navigate all the pieces so that you're, you know, um, helping try to again, just kind of keep a cohesion through the process when there really is that much friction, you know, you're not going to solve it.
It's not, it's beyond you, you know, it's beyond your little section of this whole production puzzle. But, um, you know, you do have to make this, you have to make your piece work because you can't make a show with no actors,
John: Yeah.
Rachel: you know what I mean? So you just gotta like, I'm always like, I always say like my office, I'm just like, I on the prize, you know what I mean?
Like, at the end of the day, we have to, we have to get this, we have to get actors on screen and like, that's what our goal is, you know, or if like, if I was talking to you guys and you were like, you know, you know, when I talked to showrunners or directors, whatever, and they're all like, you know, upset about everything, I'll be like, okay, guys, like, let's just think like endgame, you know, like, shut out the noise, like,
Drew: Yeah.
Rachel: You know, this is, is this, is what is, you know, what do you want?
Do you want that? But like, like, do you want that actor? Is that your end game? Well then like, let's just do the steps to get that person, whatever they're asking, let's just do it and get them cast. You know what I mean? And just shut out the rest, you know, like just keep your eye on the prize. By the way, I'm making it sound like I'm so Zen. Like I've totally, by the way, like as soon as I hang up the phone, I'm like, you
Drew: Oh, we've definitely cast, uh, people together like, uh, like less than 36 hours before they have to
Rachel: yeah,
Drew: boots on the ground, you know, on set shooting, you know,
Rachel: Not to mention I make the stakes so high about everything, every job, everything is so high. I can't, you know, you'd think after all this time, I wouldn't, but I make the stakes high on everything. But, but I, but I do, you know, um, but I think in those cases they're hard because they do, I feel like they get steamrolled and they get bullied.
and, uh, you just kind of have to really try to give them a, help them have a voice in those situations and, you know, just try to kind of keep the process moving along.
Drew: Yeah.
Stacy: rare in your experience, are,
Rachel: Rare. Totally rare.
Stacy: people get along, they collaborate back and forth respect. Okay. That's cool.
Rachel: Yeah.
Drew: cool. That is good to hear.
John: I am working on it.
Drew: Do you find that kind of cooks in the kitchen idea like that? Uh, is it a lot more extensive in television than film in your experience? Yeah. Yeah. Same with our experience. I was just curious.
Rachel: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Drew: so many more shows than we have, you know, in your, in your career.
Just yeah.
Rachel: I feel like movies are so much easier.
Drew: Yeah.
John: Well,
Rachel: I don't know that even, it's so untrue, it's probably not true at all, but it just, It feels even in like my, like the initial, even just making a deal, you know what I mean? Like from like my, just making a deal for something, like it's just, everything is so much easier when a movie is just like, makes so much more sense.
Drew: It's true.
John: there's so fewer choices that I, I found like. At least in our first couple movies, man, like, we had people all, like, all over us every second of every, like, whereas in TV, there's just too many choices to make, like, eventually they burn out and then you just get to, like, do your thing, you know, to, like, hopefully if they, you know, have, uh, faith in you and you're not causing a lot of drama, you know what I mean?
Like, which we tend to not do.
Drew: Maybe we can talk about that for a minute. Just the difference between a limited series and an ongoing series as it relates to casting. Cause I, our experience has been, it's pretty massive in terms of, uh, the level, just the, the actors that will consider a limited series that would not consider, uh, an Pickett.
John: yeah,
Drew: You know, the studio network is going to want, you know, a multi year option because that's a show that's intended to go multiple seasons. And if you sign that deal, they own you kind of in first position throughout the length of that show, whether it's one season or six seasons, you don't know that as an actor.
So you don't really know what your commitment is to that show. You kind of have to take a leap of faith. You know, we're limited series is like, it's an eight hour movie, but it will be over after those eight hours. Like it'll be a long shoot, but it will be. There won't be a season two that you're connected to legally contractually.
Um, so yeah, maybe we can talk about like, do your lists, uh, vary significantly depending on limited versus ongoing.
Rachel: percent.
Drew: Yeah.
Rachel: yeah. So basically it's the option deal, which is the killer. Yeah. Is that because it hasn't changed since, all the network stuff, like they'll ideally, they're going to ask you for a six year option, you know? So they're going to ask you to be in first position for six years and that's a long time, you know?
And if your show, right, your show gets canceled or, you know, after three years, then obviously you're free. But, um, but for six years you're in first position to that show and what that means for anyone who doesn't know is that Um, they basically own you and that if you want it, they'll be, it's very specific about what you're allowed to do in the same, in TV, um, while, while you're, um, while they own, while you're in first position to them.
So, you know, you have to get, you know, you might only be able to do like a four episode arc on another show, or maybe you could do a limited series, you know, um, only, , but that they feel they're paying you enough money to, to have the rights to do that, but a lot of people don't want to be locked up like that anymore and. you know, I was kind of hoping that with streaming, that there'd be like a new version of that, that maybe people like would be willing to do like streamers would be willing to do three year options, things that make it more appealing. So I wouldn't say that that's the norm. I'm sure sometimes they'll do that with some actors, you know, just to get them, but not, I wouldn't say that that that's just a case by case basis.
And, and, uh, you know, I, every, of course, everybody wants to own, you want to have the rights to everyone as long as you can, you know, if you're paying them. So, um, and yeah, that's just not, it's appealing.
Drew: Oh, it's
Rachel: series is you go for six months, nine months, and you're done.
Drew: Yeah, as an actor, I'm sure it's terrifying to think of a six year, you know, contract where it's, uh, you know, what if you... Like you don't really know the showrunners. You don't really know anyone. So what if you don't like the showrunners? What if you don't, what if the writing seems good, but then, you know, doesn't go in a good direction?
What if, you know, you don't like your castmates? Like, what if you just don't like being there? And then you're suddenly, you know, potentially there for multiple years. Uh, that's a,
Rachel: but, but there's a whole, there's a ton of actors who would love to actually be on a, have a six year deal. Do you know what I mean? Like,
John: To have that guarantee.
Rachel: yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a whole world of like shows that, you know, that I think people would actually love to have that opportunity.
So I don't want to say that, but I think if you're, um, this is really pertains more to like if you're, um, kind of like in the A list. You know what I mean? Like, cause that's what they're trying to get. They're trying to get you to be the, the lead of their show and the anchor of their show. And, and, um, to get you to sign up, to commit to a show for that many years.
It's just, it's, it's hard to, to get. Um, I think, but I think, I think it, it's probably really appealing for, um, a lot of people to have that kind of security, you know?
Drew: Yeah, totally. And I feel like the difference between, you know, casting Waco and casting Joe Pickett was that difference of, you know, limited series versus ongoing. And I feel like for Joe Pickett, your first call is like going down the list and talking to the agents and saying, is, you know, so and so
Rachel: the
Drew: open to, are they open to a multi year period, you know?
And, and a lot of them, it's just a hard no. Um, and then some are like, maybe depending on, you know, if it's really good, you know? Yeah.
Rachel: Exactly. It depends on the scripts and the people, the filmmakers, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. But again, but that's only for the, those are for the two leads when we were trying to come up with like doing offer only names. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause then I think for, yeah,
John: One thing I didn't realize uh, when getting into TV is the difference in a season two versus uh, second limited like so, Joe Pickett was season one, season two, Waco was Waco and then Waco Aftermath were considered different, limited series. And what's nice, nice from our standpoint, from the writing standpoint is you get paid for a second pilot for that second series.
Uh, whereas a season two, it's just that that pilot, or that first episode is paid, like, just scale. You know, same as any episode, which,
Drew: And save for directing, uh, save for directing the first episode of season two is scale, you know,
Rachel: Yeah. It's not a first, it's not a first episode anymore.
Drew: it's not a first
Rachel: Right. In a multi, in a multi season.
Drew: Yeah.
John: so if you can, you know, call it a limited and say like, this is a limited, but in success we could, you know, do a second, you know, another, like a future, you know, future seasons. Uh, but if it's structured as a limited, then you get paid all over again for season two, but you may not be able to get the actors to come back if you, you know, especially if they have a bad experience.
Drew: Yeah. And the networks don't like it because if you're bringing an actor back for a second round of a limited series or a second season of a limited series, that they're, you know, they're negotiating from zero. So the actor knows they can, uh,
John: they
Drew: really reach, they can grind you and you know, you're going to make your pay that actor four times as much for the second season.
So that's why the, the, the multi year, you know, options exist.
Rachel: And I think it's complicated for the Emmys, isn't it? Like, cause you can't like, then you're not eligible. You can't be a limited series. If you're bringing back like the same character,
Drew: Is that right? I
Rachel: you'd have to go into the, yeah. Cause you'd have to go into the drama. Um, you know, like you'd have to go into the drama category, I think, cause it, cause you'd be bringing back, if you bring back the same character, then it wouldn't really be a, if I'm not mistaken, is that wrong?
Drew: that sounds like it could be right. Uh, that, you
John: I don't know,
Rachel: Yeah.
John: with Waco
Rachel: Lotus would be in the, I think White Lotus is in the drama category to fear and try to
John: yeah, but
Drew: a limited, okay.
John: Yeah, but
Rachel: Cause Jennifer Coolidge came back.
John: That's, uh, like, same with Fargo That's, uh, what do they call that? That's, uh
Drew: Uh, uh, seasonal anthology,
Rachel: Yeah. But Fargo
Drew: but Fargo's yeah, but Fargo is a true seasonal anthology. I think what you're saying, Rachel, is that like white Lotus brought back, you know, uh, Jennifer Coolidge and, uh, uh, what's his name? Uh, her boyfriend in this show. Yeah. Um,
Rachel: Oh, right, right, right.
Drew: right. Yeah. John Grease. Yeah. Thank you. Um, yeah. So that's maybe a slight difference.
Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. But yes, you don't get paid for season two.
Drew: Yeah.
John: Interesting.
Stacy: think about, when you're doing movies versus limited versus ongoing, do you, um, think about the actors, uh, personalities and work habits more? Are you like, cause some people are very talented, but not, you know, super delightful. Are you more, you know, will you give more of the speech of like, what a, what a funny man.
You might not have fun with this funny man in season four. Like will you give that speech or no? Yeah.
Yeah.
Rachel: No,
Drew: We'll ask though.
Rachel: I,
Drew: like we'll ask and he'll tell us, you know, what
Rachel: yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I think sometimes like if, like, right. If a filmmaker will be like, have you heard anything like negative or blah, blah, blah? Like, or, you know, um, or I heard this is, you know, have you heard this kind of thing? But like, um, no, you know, I have to tell you, I generally feel that actors will show up and be professional and do their job.
Like, I just, I really give everybody the, um, benefit of the doubt that they're just going to do their job. And I also feel that about chemistry.
Drew: Yeah.
Rachel: Like, you know, people want to do all these chemistry reads and I just, I just feel like, you know what? I know you're a good actor and I know you're a good actor and I know you're going to get together and you can be good actors together and you're going to, you're going to make it work.
I don't know why. I
Stacy: just touch his upper arm and tilt your head. And there you go. There's chemistry. You did it. Nailed it.
Rachel: you know, if I just feel like if I, if I, if you guys are like, if we both, if we all think you guys are both just amazing, I just, I just know you guys will make it like happen, you know, um, but I,
Drew: I find
Rachel: I know we all like to see it. What's
Drew: the, I find the idea of a chemistry read kind of bizarre because you're trying to project what kind of chemistry these two people have after they've spent. A month, you know, together and like prepping the show and really getting to know each other, but you're trying to project that from like, Hey, why don't you two come and meet for the first time in front of a whole audience of people watching you have this, you know, create chemistry together where, you know, they're, they're usually like, don't know each other and are just meeting each other for the first time.
And it's not at all the same as what it looks like on set months later. Um, it's just kind of a
Rachel: I think I've had one. Yeah. I think I've literally had one, but I've had like one of my friends just had to do like a million on one of her shows. And I was, and I, and, um, and it was just kind of interesting. Like, it's not like. I don't know what the process is, but it was just kind of fun to like, as a watching her go through all of it and watching, like listening to her report on all of it.
Stacy: Out of curiosity, was that, was it chemistry test for a whole bunch of different characters? Or was it just one dud who just didn't have chemistry?
Rachel: tons of characters.
Stacy: Okay.
Rachel: Yeah. It was definitely more like a teen, not teenager, but it is, was more of a young adult genre too. So I think that's probably more where that happens, but, um, but they did a ton. Yeah. I'm so lazy. I was just like, can't they just, just hire him?
John: Yeah. Hardly. Yeah.
Rachel: I like to pretend that it's because I believe in the actors, but I'm lazy.
I'm like, do we need to do a Gamma's Dream read? I'm always like, do we need to do a table read? Can we just do it?
Drew: no, you're right though. This is like, this is the phase of casting that gets pretty thankless and pretty arduous and
Rachel: I want to know, can you talk to me about table reads? Because I
John: Yeah, let's talk about let's talk about table reads.
Rachel: I have a lot of clients that do not do table reads actually. And I have a lot that do. And I, is it just for you guys?
Drew: We never,
Rachel: the script?
John: we try to never do. We try to never
Rachel: Right. Sorry.
Drew: not for us. It's, you know,
Rachel: you're in that category.
I forgot you
John: Yeah. In our experience, it's so the network can second guess, like, I mean, I guess here's the upside downside. The upside of table reads are You get a sense of like, okay, without any direction, this is how this character, if this actor is going to play this role, maybe a little morose and this character, you know, this actor is going to rush through things like you get a sense of people's rhythms in a way that you can then prepare to counterbalance some of those, if that makes
Rachel: But like, but nobody's bring, I feel like nobody's bringing It's so hit or miss if like people are actually bringing what they're going to bring to Their what the how they're going to perform like i've got a table read I went to a table read where it's like two people were just like, you know Just doing kind of doing it like this, you know like this and then a couple were like really bringing it You know what?
I mean? And you were like, oh but like You know what? I mean? It's so like it's not like everybody's bringing it and it's just like a weird
Drew: Yeah.
Rachel: It's just, I mean, and it's not like anybody, it doesn't seem like anybody's talking to everyone beforehand being like, Hey everybody, I want everybody to really, you know, be doing it at this, this place, you know, it's like one person starts and everyone follows that
Drew: Well, and some people come like full, you know, you know, kind of fully made up and in their goatee and in their, you know, like in character and others are just like in there, you know, in a trailer somewhere just doing it, you know, kind of in the middle of their day and, uh, you definitely have a very uneven nature.
Rachel: It's so uneven. That's it.
Stacy: Yeah. Totally. Bedazzled pockets.
Rachel: say it. It's so uneven. That's what it is. So then I'm
Stacy: an actor, as an actor I've done table reads and found them really helpful, especially if there's something where it's like. If it's a network show or something and they're cranking and they're doing like they're just keep doing shows and they're doing a million of them I think it can be helpful.
First of all, it's easier if it's something that's shooting in town because then it's not like a big old deal It's just like hey, we're driving up It's part of the process But then I think the actors and and all the other people can sort of see how those separate subplots Play together. Do you know what I mean?
Like, Oh, I get it. Like, of course the actors would read the whole script. They don't maybe really get it until you're like, Oh, I get it. There's a very sad subplot this week. So now my lighthearted subplot, actually, I get why that has to pop. Like you can, it's only sort of when you hear it all together that you see why your color matters.
Do you know what I mean? Like they're all painting different colors and you go, Oh, I get it. I see the whole painting together. And then times I have done table reads, usually the scripts change a lot. Do you know what I mean? It'll be stuff with comedy or stuff with, uh, you know, what procedural type subplots.
And it's almost like a, like a play reading where you hear, you know, the writers hear it and then make a bunch of tweaks based on that. So I think that could be helpful, but I don't know if it's worth people flying, you know,
Drew: I can't believe they used to do that. Like now we just do it on zoom, which has got its own issues. Cause of course, you know, someone's connection isn't good and, you know, throws the whole thing off, but I can't believe like we used to have, you know, fly people across the country to kind of, you know, during pre production to come to Santa Fe and all sit in a room for one day and then fly them all back to New York and LA, you know, that's crazy.
It's
Rachel: I, I, yeah, the whole, it's still, I still like, I feel like it's just like, get some buddies, get them together and like, you know, hear it, like to hear it out loud. Like I, it seems, yeah, I don't.
Drew: Well, John, you made a point. And I think this is the one thing I do appreciate about table reads is like the studio network, you know, whoever, you know, is kind of. In charge, you know, they will hear the actors do it once and there will be two, one or two or three specific things that, you know, we had one where like the head of the network is like, I really don't like how that person's, you know, the act affect of their accent.
I find them hard to understand. They need to speak more clearly. And, um, and performance is really, really good. But, um, but to know that, uh, before they're watching dailies is really helpful because it didn't bother us in the same way it did. It, we thought it was an effective performance, you know, and then you get to day one and they're watching dailies and the head of the network saying, I can't understand anything this actor's saying, go back and, you know, reshoot it or
Rachel: right, right,
Drew: a d r, the whole thing, like it. So those, those little triggers, I think that can kind of come out in the table, read that. Are helpful to know.
Rachel: Yeah, yeah. it'd be it seems like if you're going to do it and like you said, you're like, if everyone's flying in or whatever, or if it's, if it's something like important to the studio, it seems like it'd be worth like a pre meeting before the table read to be like, Hey, everybody, this is the, you know, presentation for the studio network.
We'd love you all to kind of bring an energy to it, you know, and really like kind of, you know, give, you know, So like, there is some kind of like mutual levels that are happening, you know, and not just like two actors who are bringing it and all of a sudden the energy's lifted and the rest of them are all like, you know, you know, mumbling and whatever, you know, cause it's like, I think you're right.
I think there are some consequences that come out of that, that, you know, like you said, like there's, you know, cuts to dialogue or stuff that are asked that aren't really necessary or actors getting fired or things like that, you know, that aren't fair at all. So stupid, you know, um, and, uh, and from a casting perspective, there's so much work.
So you're just like, Oh my
Drew: God, I know. I'm sure. I'm sure.
Rachel: so
Drew: try to avoid it at all costs.
Stacy: Ha
Rachel: I went to one in New York recently for our show and I, I, I was like, Oh my God. Like, I was just like, you know, deep breaths beforehand because you know, you're just worried that like, You know, you've combed through the script so many times to make sure every line is accounted for.
You know what I mean? And it's like, it's like, breaks your brain. You know what I mean? I had to do one for a director that is like, it was like a bucket list director for me. And it was a, I thought it was just doing a table read for one episode.
And I misunderstood, whatever, there was a communication error and I was talking to the producer and they were like, okay, well, we're going to divide it over two days. And I was like, Oh, that's weird. You're going to do 30 pages one day and 30 pages another. And, um, she was like, no, we do four episodes one day and four episodes another.
And I was like, Oh, I'm sorry. We're doing all eight episodes. And she was like, there's nobody cast by the way. And I was like, Oh my God. And there's 250 parts.
Drew: Oh my
Rachel: And I was like,
Drew: about.
Stacy: Oh!
Rachel: like, I mean, you should have seen, I mean, I think I was like, you never see, um, obviously you saw broadcast news, but I was like full on
Stacy: You're Albert
Rachel: would be working and then I'd be like sobbing and then I'd go back to work and then I'd be sobbing and go back to work because it, my brain was like melting during the process because it was just trying to figure out how to like assign these parts and get a handle on this huge. I mean, and then
Drew: casting the table read all, yeah, that's
Rachel: and he is very much like I am casting the table read like I am sending him Reels and things to watch if people it's not he's that just like oh like fill it and they'll be great He's like we're cat like we're casting it I was like this is it was so intense and I was like, this is the pinnacle of a table read I was like, I will never nothing will ever be harder
Drew: Superbowl of table reads, yeah.
Rachel: like the Super Bowl.
It's like my, my nightmare of table reads has now been given like it's like the Meg You know, I just saw a poster of the Meg driving the other day. I was like, it's the Meg of table reads Oh, never nothing will ever be harder again
Stacy: Did those people end up being your cast?
Rachel: it had it didn't get made It didn't get
Drew: It did get made.
Stacy: Oh!
Rachel: I mean, it probably will be.
Drew: before it didn't get made, did you think, did you get the impression that anyone in the table read casting was going to then be in the cast? Or was
Rachel: I think, I feel like he would have gone with, a handful.
Stacy: Just a handful? Oh! Oh!
Rachel: Well,
Drew: that's exciting.
Rachel: we had to limit it to like, you know, we couldn't have like 70 people do it. You know what I mean? There's only like, yeah. But I would think a small handful. I mean, at one point we had to be like, you know, He'd be like, well, you know, this role, it was written this way. And we'd be like, okay, but you know, when you're casting, you know, when the show's actually casting, then you'll get into much more of the physicality. Like, I think like we had to kind of find, you know, some just good players who could do a bunch of roles.
Stacy: Multiple roles. I get
Rachel: many good people. I mean, it was just a really beautiful, like a, like so many people were so kind with their time to participate. So it was really like, it was, it was, it actually was like,
Drew: for an actor, I bet it is. Yeah.
Stacy: Yeah. For an actor to be like, I played four
Rachel: really,
Drew: it's like a big audition for a A list director, you know, and, uh,
Rachel: right. Right.
Drew: a real show and like, that's pretty
Rachel: like four hours a day. Two days a week on Saturday and Sunday.
Drew: Wow. Saturday, Saturday, Sunday too. That's
Rachel: Yeah, totally. Totally. let's jump into the Rapid Fire four.
Jed: Uh, we asked four questions, uh, every week. what is the first television show you truly loved and why?
Rachel: I would say, um, okay, I have a different answer. the thing, if I was like, to think of like the first time I had like a visceral like reaction to shows, it's actually was like a lineup. It was like the Saturday night lineup when I was young of the Muppet show. Then there was a show that I don't remember.
It's like a blank. Then it was the love boat, fantasy Island, the news, Saturday night live. And like the baby, you know what I mean? And the babysitter felt like I had to stay up to watch it live. You know what I mean? But like I just, that lineup, that Saturday night lineup was just like. I just like, I like, it's such, I like the visceral memory.
That's when I first just was like, television is like the greatest thing in the whole world. You know what I mean? Like that.
Stacy: director answer too. You're like variety show, don't remember, guest of the week show, guest of the week show, variety show, guest
Rachel: so right.
Stacy: It's like you're just casting the shit out of it. You're like eight. You're like, yeah, great host.
Rachel: so true. It's all variety shows.
Stacy: Yeah. It's all fresh cast. So much cast.
Rachel: I was like, what came after the Muppets that didn't stick with me? It's so weird. It was like, what was that? 7. 30 to 8 time slot, cause Love Boat was 8 to 9, Fantasy 9 to 10, News 10 to 10. 30, Saturday Night Live 10. 30 to midnight.
Drew: is a
Stacy: Rachel, I got to tell you, I played this game and my answer was Love Boat Fantasy Island. I would run home. I would run home from playing outside to be like, Oh my God, it's Love Boat Fantasy Island.
Rachel: It was the best.
Drew: really
Stacy: a doll on fire in the trailer. I remember being like, oh, a doll on fire. That's so scary. There's romance.
Rachel: intense. It was the scariest
Drew: It was a scary show. Like, I feel like it's...
Rachel: Yeah. Some of those storylines were like... Adult, really
Stacy: Yeah, right? Hot, hot stuff. Woo.
What is your favorite part of the job?
Rachel: Oh God. I mean, just finding the right actor for a role. I mean, it's so weird. I mean, like not weird, but it's just like, um, just that feeling when that feeling, when you find that actor and then your, your creatives also share that same passion, like when you all together are like, Oh my God. We found it.
That's amazing. You know, we love that person. We all collectively love the person. We're excited together.
Drew: Yeah. That's cool. I gotta
Rachel: the best feeling
Drew: quick tangent though, but like, do you ever have those moments you're like, I knew it. I called that actor like way because we have that experience with you and one actor in particular on Waco season one, we had already done like, you know, the offer only actors and now we're into auditioning.
And I remember you calling, you know, one day it's like when you're in prep, you're prepping all day and then you go back to your hotel and like, you know, watch auditions all night and you can get that fatigue where you're not really, you know, yeah. Maybe, you know, glazing over a little bit, but I remember you calling me like, do not sleep on this actress, you know, for, for Michelle, like, do not sleep on this, you know, on this idea.
Rachel: oh for julia.
Drew: For Julia. Yeah. I mean, I think it's, I think it's okay to say the name now. I mean, for Julia Gardner, who has had read for it, but this was pre Ozark. This was like, you know, she was, you know, having some success,
Rachel: the bomb
Drew: but within like, you know, two years of that day and that call, like she is one of the biggest, uh, you know, most successful actresses in TV now.
And,
Rachel: Yeah,
Drew: to me, I would think that would be like, uh, to see the future a little bit, uh, it's like a power that you have. Yeah. Yeah, and you, when you, when you tell us that it's always right and it's, uh, um, and that one we were lucky enough to, you know, not only that you were right, but that we,
Rachel: right you get to have
Drew: able to cast that,
Rachel: I
Drew: were able to cast her, but that's pretty cool.
Rachel: You get a little piece of that pie,
Drew: Yeah.
Stacy: What is the part of the job that costs you something?
Rachel: It's the time, the time commitment. I mean, I guess everyone runs their business differently, but, um, me personally, I feel like a lot of times maybe like the lack of boundaries as far as being available and, um, just the amount of time that casting, uh, takes. To do, uh, it, it, it really, you, you know, you will work all night and weekends and don't get a lot of personal time to do things.
It's, it's, uh, can be a little, little soul crushing sometimes. So I think it takes, I think you sacrifice a lot of personal time.
Drew: Yeah. We see that. You definitely are one of the busiest people I know in this entire industry that we work with. That's no question.
Rachel: I don't know. Okay.
Stacy: Mmm. If you had a time machine, what one piece of advice would you give yourself when you started your television journey?
Rachel: um, I, well, I guess I would say maybe just like my journey. Well, I guess I would just like to, I wish I would have always told myself to my maybe kind of like not make the stakes so high. And like to kind of keep some objectivity like around things, but the truth is I kind of really never stopped doing that.
So I, it's kind of a thing I should probably always keep telling myself, but, um, I, you know, I feel like I get just as like nervous, you know, doing a job, starting a new job now than I did, you know, when I started like 25 years ago. You know, I remember actually, I did it, Oh my God, I had a session with you guys.
We had a callback session and at the end of it, I was like, Oh, I totally remember this. I was like, Oh my God, I am so happy this is over. And you were like, Oh, you were like, why? You were like, did you get nervous? I was like, of course I got nervous. What are you talking about? And you're like, that is, and one of you were like, that is so crazy to me that you get so nervous before a session.
I would think you wouldn't, you know, like that you wouldn't get nervous that way. And I was like, Oh my God, you're crazy. That's crazy.
Drew: Cause I find that, I find that sitting in in person auditions for a whole day to be a really tense, you know, I don't know, like I'm happy when those days are over because it is nerve wracking and you're watching,
Rachel: it's so nerve
Drew: get up there and like, you know, lay it all out there and it's, uh, you're nervous for them and like you just do it over and over and over again all day.
It's, you know, pretty
Stacy: think actors know that. That's fascinating. I,
Rachel: And I'm probably
Stacy: no idea you guys would have nerves.
Drew: Oh my god, yeah, it's, it's, it's tense.
Rachel: And I'm probably mouthing their words along with them while they're acting because I'm nervous and I'm like, And I'm ruining their auditions because I'm so
Stacy: think I spent too many years doing musical theater auditions where it just seems like everyone's eating a salad the whole time. I'm like, am
Rachel: know,
Stacy: a table of people eating a salad while I dance. Dance monkey.
Rachel: Yeah. Nobody eats during auditions. Nobody gets on there, but I'll tell you, you know what, you know, the only time of my life that that stuff was actually real was when I was in Chicago and we did commercials and you had that whole like commercial ad agency kind of thing. And people would be like, sunglasses on during auditions and like that kind of like.
Stacy: eating a...
Rachel: You know, we're doing our Bud Light commercial and they're like, you know, it's just like a lot of like cool attitude kind of thing. But since then, I don't remember anybody being like, like, uh, you know, having that kind of like, you know, in, in auditions,
Drew: yelling next in the middle of an audition.
Rachel: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Stacy: once for a Japanese, it was a commercial being shot in Japan, so it was a huge table full of maybe like ten people from Japan and I had to be in a bikini and I walked in in a bikini and everybody just died laughing.
Rachel: No.
Drew: Oh my God,
Stacy: And I get it. I got a funny body.
Rachel: Oh my God.
Stacy: They weren't wrong. I was basically like, yeah, this is what you see. I shouldn't have taken off work. I get it.
Drew: I shouldn't should be here. Oh my God. That's so funny.
Rachel: Oh my God. See, I would have been in therapy for like 15 years for that moment. That would have been like, I would have been crushed. Yeah, I did not, I did not have the skin of an actor. Nope. No. That's why I love em so much. Yeah. Yeah. My gosh.
Drew: well, Rachel, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for joining us. We
Rachel: Oh my God. My pleasure. It's so nice to see your faces.
Drew: to see your face too.
Rachel: Yes. Um, okay. And then, um, well, this was so fun and obviously good luck with this
Drew: Thank
Stacy: Everybody, if you, if you like our show, consider subscribing, forward it to a friend, uh, share it with your group text, put it on your, I don't know, social media thing. Just, uh, just love us cause we love you.
Drew: Thank you.
Rachel: deeply.